Reproducing Historical Flies Question

[RAW]

Any experts out there know if a person can get in trouble for reproducing and selling historically patented patterns?

When does a patent run out?

Thinking of flies like Pott's Hair Flies, Bunyan Bugs and such.

[Lonnie]

Robert,

I think a United States Patten is good for 25 years. If something's older than that, I think it's fair game. But then again, I'm not a lawyer....

L

[RAW]

Thinking of making shadow box type displays with the historic flies and their histories.

Not reproducing them for fishing just wall hanging.

[Mike A]

I'm not an expert but I'm related to one. The following, however, is how I understand things and not necessarily how he does.

Patents in general expire after a period of 17 years from date of issuance or 20 years from date of application depending on the date on which the patent was applied. The law has changed some over the years. Some types of patents have a shorter 14 year period.

Where I think you would have issues is not with the patent issue but with trademarks. Even though you may be able to tie a fly and sell it without violating the patent because it has expired, if you used a name which is trademarked you could have trouble.

For example, I looked up Jim Teeny's "creation", the Teeny Nymph. The patent for it was applied for in 1972 and granted in 1974, so my understanding is that it has expired. But, he does have an active registered trademark on the name Teeny Nymph.

You mentioned the Bunyan Bug. It is currently produced and sold by a relative of Norman Means named Richard Rose who holds a trademark on the name "Bunyan Bug" along with a design that is a specific drawing of a Bunyan Bug. You can check it out here if you want. Just go to the US Patent and Trademark Office site and search for Bunyan Bug under Trademarks.

http://www.uspto.gov/

I understand that he actively enforces his trademark so you would not be able to use the name. The inclusion of the drawing of the fly in the trademark means that he could try to prosecute anyone who sold the fly under another name for violating his trademark because it's the same design, but as I understand it this hasn't been looked upon kindly by the courts in other cases. Applying a drawing in a trademark to an actual device to extend what should be covered under patent law is abuse of the trademark system.

A trademark can lapse if it is not enforced for a period of three years. So if you're interested in a fly that had the trademark registered long ago but it has not been enforced for years, you could be fine.

If I were you, I'd check for active trademarks on anything you were considering selling just to be safe. I probably should have put a little (R) symbol by all my mentions of registered trademark names above such as Bunyan Bug(R) and Teeny Nymph(R).

I am not a lawyer and this is all just my non-lawyer understanding. I could be full of crap. My brother, on the other hand, is a lawyer who is very interested in patents on flies out of a personal fascination and knows a lot about it, but if you ask him for advice he'll say you should consult a lawyer, he's not licensed to practice law where you live, etc., etc., or else I would just direct you to ask him.

[RAW]

Red Tape.

What's next. . .flies with the tiers signature somewhere on the body or the name of the fly imprinted with a little (R) next to it?

[Mike A]

Red Tape.

What's next. . .flies with the tiers signature somewhere on the body or the name of the fly imprinted with a little (R) next to it?

Quick, patent that idea and you'll be rich! (once you make enough cash to cover the patent fees)


Yeah, it could be a hassle at times, but I think there are plenty of flies available you could tie and sell. Just be careful with Bunyan Bugs and Teeny Nymphs in particular. I don't know if any of George Grant's or Franz Pott's flies are trademarked. I did a quick search on some of the more popular ones like the Sandy Mite, Fizzle and Black Creeper as well as their names and found nothing. Those look very nice on display and have interesting histories. I'd buy them if I didn't tie them myself. I'm in the middle of a bunch of feather-backed brass bugs at the moment looking forward to a warm day in February to hit the Bow when the golden stone nymphs start to get a little active.

[Jason]

That's lame. Why be so egotistical and patent a fly, and an old fly at that? I can see why Teeny might trade mark his nymph because that how he makes a living, but an old fly like the Bunyan Bug? Come on. Seems a little selfish.

[nightfish]

I would think you'd be safe tying, framing & selling the flies if you credit the originator and stated that it was tied by you. If you tied it and in the process of selling, you claimed it was an original by the creator, it would be fraud.

To get around a patented design, the design only needs to be changed 10%. Not hard to do on a fly, but then it wouldn't be "historically accurate".