Fat epoxy over guide wrappings.

[Hopper]

OK, I finished wrapping, then sealed. Looked good generally except where the thread goes over the guide foot on some of the guides. At this point the epoxy thinned out and threads were still exposed after it dried, on top and typically on one side of the foot. No problem, I'll just hit them again thought. When I reapplied the surface tension of the liquid pulled all of the cement to the center of the wrap and now I have big bulbous (|) blobs of cement covering my wraps. Still clean and clear, just not as sleek and trim as it should. What should I have done differently? Just applied the epoxy to the guide foot area where it was needed? I'm sure it will still all function fine, just doesn't look as sharp as I had hoped.

Hopper

[cheech]

I hear you on that one. It can be frustrating to see that. In the future, take a dremel to each and every foot. Dremel them if they come pre-grinded or not. You should be able to get them really smooth. You can also buy very fine guides. The best job I've ever seen is Norm's bamboo wraps. I'm sure he could shed some light.

[ScottT]

Were you using a rod turner? The old "quarter turn on vee-blocks every 15 minutes" procedure is a nightmare in the making.

Cheech is right - I touch-up all the snakes w/ the dremel, reducing the width somewhat. Then making sure the guide sits flat or even very slightly high in the middle, I rub it across a piece of fine grit wet/dry sandpaper (the black sheets) until the tips of the feet are razor-sharp. Now there will never be a discernable transition from blank to guide-foot.

This is a tedious pain in the a$$ procedure, but the quality of the finished product is worth it. Sore fingers!

ScottT

[jdubya]

Hopper, if you want a nice smooth finish you have to get the whole wrap wet, so it is hard to just put epoxy on just the one section you want to touch up. That said, I usually do three epoxy coats: the first to just wet between the threads, the second to coat a bit more even, and the third as the "smooth shell".

The key to NOT getting the blob is to keep the rod turning the whole time. I will usually do the whole rod at once in the evening and just let it turn all night (or at least until the battery dies). As long as I haven't put too much on in the first place, usually the wrap has a nice bulge (c cup) to it, but not a blob (DD) .

[Rod]

when applying more than one coat I assume that you let each coat dry prior to applying the second...?
Also do you thin the epoxy when you apply more than one coat? If so what do you recomend thinning with.

Thanks

[gware]

It must be level while it is drying in the turner. If not it will blob up on one ene or the middle.

gware

[Jason]

Sounds like maybe your guide feet may be too big. Like Cheech said, file them down flatter. That or you're just using way too much epoxy. Try using half as much.

[Crosby]

I might be missing something- yes- file the foots- but if your getting a glob in an area- don't forget to just hit the area b4 it hardens with a little heat from the hair dryer to smooth it out.

[jdubya]

when applying more than one coat I assume that you let each coat dry prior to applying the second...?
Also do you thin the epoxy when you apply more than one coat? If so what do you recomend thinning with.

Thanks

Right, each process is a full day to coat and dry: so if I stay focussed I get it done over three consecutive nights. I don't thin the epoxy: i just try to use the minimum amount each time.

I don't think the problem is the foot: having the foot smooth is much more of an issue laying the thread down in the first place.

The probelm as written, is a big fat blob in the middle: so gravity is not your friend. Too much epoxy: use less next time, and turn, baby, turn. wasn't that the name of a song...........

[Hopper]

I did dremel the foot of the guide so I had a nice smooth transition from the blank up the foot as Scott T describes. It is closer to the actual guide loop where the I had the intial problem, where the guide foot is thicker and the epoxy didn't cover. I didn't sand the entire guide foot thinner as I figured strength of the foot was a pretty important thing to maintain.

I'm pretty sure I used way too much epoxy on the 2nd coat, as the surface tension of the viscous goo pulled it into a nice symetrical oval, thickest in the center of the wrap, thinner at the edges, uniform around the rod blank. I used a turner, about 10 RPM which looked perfect to me, especially based on the cross sectional symetry of the epoxy build up. Rod was essentially level as the build up is thickest in the center of the wrap. Maybe I'm not describing the problem clearly.

If you could cut the rod cross sectionally through a guide foot it would look somewhat like this after wrapping the guide down with thread.
_ top of guide foot covered by thread.
/-\ slanted tapers as the thread goes over the guide foot.
( ) nice round blank.

1st coat had nice even epoxy coverage everywhere except on the thread as it went up and over the guide foot. The round part of the blank covered well and the thread had a nice coating over it. Where the thread forms slanted tapers as it goes up and over the guide foot is where I had the initial problem. The thread was "wetted" with the epoxy, but didn't have a protective coat completely over it. Thread was still exposed to wear, etc. When I recoated (about 3 days later) I covered all the wraps (360' around the rod, even where they weren't holding the guide foot down) with additional epoxy. I was afraid it would give a visible blob if I applied only at the tapers on the sides of the guide foot, so I applied an even 2nd coat (unthinned) instead. I must have applied it way too thick and the viscosity just pulled it to the center of the wrap. My thread is all well covered now, but the epoxy is very thick at the center of the wrap. Now it looks like my rod has those bumps you see on aspen trees. I guess I'll have to wait for that style to come in vogue, or accidentally break it so I can do it over.

I think if I would have done thinner applications as Jdubya recommended I would have been OK.

Hopper

[Cary]

My guess is that Gware nailed it. if the rod is not perfecly level, the epoxy does some strange, unexpected things.

There are alot of opinions on the best way to finish wraps. Personally, I use two coats, fisrt to wet/ work guide tunnel, second to smooth. I'd rather go too light than too heavy. if there are *slight* thread ridges on the guidefoot, no biggie. As well, I deon't use flex coat anymore. Its good stuff, but has some paculiar traits and is can bit touchy at times. you need a bit of witchcraft to get consistently good results if your starting out. Try duragloss (U-40), you may have different results.

[newtyer]

Sounds to me you just used to much epoxy. Thats one of the causes of footballs. You will see these on big production rods. As they only throw on one heavy coat of epoxy over the threads. To high of rpm in your motor can cause this too. What epoxy were you using?

I personally prefer the hand turn method and they still turn out perfectly flat. I have had two motors burn out on me while I wasn't around to tend to the matter. Unbelievably frustrating.