Foam Flies

[Sumner Newman]

I just began tying some black foam beetle type flies yesterday - my first shot at and experience with foam. I encountered a few difficulties or challenges and have some questions. I was tying a pattern dubbed the "UFO" as seen in the Sept. 2003 issue of Fly Fishermen in an article by Harrison Steves, if I recall correctly. It's tied on a TMC 5212 hook (2XL, fine wire), size 10. Has a peacock herl underbody with a black foam strip tied in at the rear and then pulled up over the top of the peacock herl and to a distance about 2/3 of the way up the shank of the hook (where it's again tied down) for the main body. I was using strip of 3mm sheet foam cut about 3/16" wide.

Questions:

1. I found it difficult to tie down the foam securely enough to the hook without it still being subject to rotational slipping around the hook - even after the fly is completed and after pulling as tightly as I dared on my 6/0 thread and making a large number of thread wraps to try to secure it tightly in place. Is this normal? Are there things I can do to bind the foam more securely to the hook shank so it will not slip? (BTW, I am laying down a good thread base on the entire shank before beginning the fly.) Should I use a particular type of thread?

2. To tie the foam in at the rear of the hook, I cut the end of the foam strip into an inverted "v" shape. This seemed to work OK. Is that the best way to tie in the foam or is there a better way?

3. When pulling the foam up over the peacock herl body to tie it down and form the main body of the fly, I would have liked to stretch or pull the foam a little more tightly than it seemed to allow me to do before it began to tear or break. Is this normal for the type/size of foam I was using? Are all foams created equal or are some types/brands better than others? What tips do you have regarding this particular challenge - although it wasn't really a big deal.

4. Do you have any suggestions or tips for tying in legs and wings (of crystal flash) at the front or in the thorax area of the fly? I really struggled with this, but think it's likely something I'll get better at as I work more with it.

Any other suggestions or tips any of you foam fly afficianados may have would be more than welcome. Also, any web sites or books you may know of with some good instructionals or tips on tying foam flies would be appreciated. Thanks.

Sumner

P.S. My first flies, all 3 of them, look pretty darn decent or even good, but I struggled a fair amount with them and would appreciate the ideas and tips some of you may have who are more experienced at these types of flies.

[joshuahodges]

"1. I found it difficult to tie down the foam securely enough to the hook without it still being subject to rotational slipping around the hook - even after the fly is completed and after pulling as tightly as I dared on my 6/0 thread and making a large number of thread wraps to try to secure it tightly in place. Is this normal? Are there things I can do to bind the foam more securely to the hook shank so it will not slip? (BTW, I am laying down a good thread base on the entire shank before beginning the fly.) Should I use a particular type of thread?"



try super glue. i never really tied with foam but once i had the same problem. super glue fixed it right up

[cheech]

Sumner- Foam fan slide around a fair bit. I would recommend putting a tiny dab of zap a gap on your thread wraps to help secure it. The strength of the foam just depends on the brand. It you use the stuff you get at SW, or Wal Mart, it probably isn't as elastic as Larva Lace foam. I use both, it just depsnds on what I am tying. You ought to get some and try it out. Another option that makes tying terrestrials fun is getting Rainey's round foam. You can do all kinds of stuff with that stuff. For beetles, I would recommed getting the black foam, cutting it in half, and using it so the round side is up when you finish the fly. It is slightly more elastic than regular foams as well. As far a tying rubber legs in, I don't really have any secrets there, it will get easier with time. If you are working with a bunch of crystal flash as a wing, it is easier to tie it in if it is slightly damp. It sticks together instead of flying all over the place. I just give it a little lick and it's good to go. The Flytier's Benchside Reference has all kinds of techniques for foam.

WHEW, hope you can understand all of that.

Cheech

[nightfish]

Yep, foam rolls around. Take advantage of the fact, and when you start the wraps of thread, position the foam slightly facing you. The thread tension and wraps will put it on top of the shank. I haven't found a full thread base necessary, especially when using a herl rope for the underbody. It is needed, though, if you're tying something like a basic chernobyl with no underbody material, and there you're mainly trying to conceal the hook.

For the beetle, they "V" tie in is a good choice. You can save time by starting the thread at the hook point, then catching the tip of the foam, and secure it in your way back to the barb, where you'll tie in the herl. For the legs, if you're using an indicator (I like Rainy's foam posts) tie that on top first, trim to length, then use 3 strands of krystal flash per side, and use the base of the indicator to hold the legs in place. This procedure is much easier if you have a rotary vice, since you can turn the jaws a bit and tie the legs in like they were on top. Zap-a gap or super glue the legs, which also helps secure the foam body. If you're going without the post, tie the legs in like a spinner wing. To see the beetle with an indicator post, ask JayMorr to send you the pic of my fly from his beetle/hopper swap.

As for foam, I like Cross-link. Evazote floats higher, and stretches ok, but is more fragile in contact with fish teeth. The craft store sheets are good too, but I've had a hard time getting a consistent thickness from sheet to sheet, even with the same brand name.

Even after getting the bug tied, and getting it out fishing, the foam can roll. Luckily, its durability allows you to twist it back to the proper position with little or no damage, so don't worry about it too much.

[Grizz]

I don't know if this will help, but I try to position the foam facing me to start (like NF said), make a few wraps to get it up on top, then a few tight wraps to suck it down good, then pull the foam back & put a few good tight wraps in front of the foam, then a few more good tight wraps back up on the foam. Seems to help me with the sliding problem. I quit using using all glue on my flies, but I'd imagine a shot of zap-a-gap would work wonders.

Rubber legs, try just getting them secured to the hook with one wrap, grab both ends of the leg & pull both the rubber & the thread simutaneously froming a tight "V" in the rubber against the thread, this will help you position both the thread & the legs were you want them, once you have them in position, tighten up the thread & wa-la, a couple more good tight wraps to flair 'em out & you're golden.

Boy, this discussion's got me day-dreamin' 'bout better weather, shorts, sandals, Pine Creek 4, Dry Canyon 3, loaded down Clacka's, abundant Cutts, sunburned necks, cold beer, caddis in my nose, trout flies under my shirt, enough Yellow sally's to cloud the sun, head dunks in cold mountain streams, sippers at twilight, bug splattered windsheilds, I-15 north, the Madison, Box, fish stories 'round the fire, etc~etc~etc!!!!

P's

[Sumner Newman]

for your suggestions and tips. They are quite helpful. Yesterday I was able to read what the Fly Tiers Benchside Reference had to say about foam. One thing I noted was that it said that when tying the types of foam flies I am referring to, you don't want to stretch or pull the foam too tightly (up over the top of the hook) as this will impair or reduce the floatability of the foam. Made sense to me and I thought it was well worth noting. It said if you want to make a smaller or thinner body, then just cut or use a thinner piece of foam instead of stretching the foam too tightly. Just thought I'd pass that on.

The book also cautioned about tying the foam down too tightly with too many wraps of thread as the this may lead to the thread cutting into the foam and it breaking or coming apart. I suppose this depends to some degree on the quality of foam you're using, and I'm guessing that maybe the suppliers have increased the quality of foam over what it was when some of these books were written. However, it still seems to be something that would be good to be aware of.