Stream Studies

[JayMorr]

Last summer Trav, Lonnie, UTDave and I spent a night on the Provo flipping over rocks and twigs looking for different aquatic life. I learned a lot that night and was wondering if there would be any interest in having a Entomology stream side study one of these upcoming Saturdays? One of my goals this year was to get some small viles and collect bug samples that I could display at my tying bench.

Lonnie, Dave....you guys interested in doing something like this? I really like the set up that Orvis has got with there insect collection.

We could maybe do a stream a month. Start out with the Provo, and then work on down the list.


Let me know.

[Lonnie]

JayMorr,

I am TOTALLY down with that. I only have 2 requests. 1. We wait til it warms a little. and 2).We do it in the day light.

I used to have a little homemade kick net. I think I "retired" it. I'll see what I can dig up. To do this right we should look at several different types of streams. If we could find some slower warmer waters (Maybe the jordan river....) we'll get different types of bugs. I would also be cool to collect some bugs and then do an indoor ID session. Anyone have access to a laptop-projector ? I've always wanted to get on of microsofts "microscopes" to attach to my PC....

[Jason]

Great suggestion. I'd have to agree with Lonnie, let's wait until it warms up a bit and let the bugs get a little bigger. :-) They'll be getting more active as spring approaches. I've got a couple large seines about 3x3 feet in size with large broom stick handles. Works great for getting good samples.

We could sample different sections of a specific river and compare samplings. Downstream/upstream bug comparisons can really surprise you. In most rivers/streams the bugs are competely different just a few miles up or down.

[Lonnie]

I'll see if I can put together an "equipment" list when the time comes (nets, pans, buckets, jars, etc.) Good tweasers are a must. They help to grab those little fast swimmers (beatis). I love doing bug work!!! Maybe we can look at stuff above and below the new restoration area on the Middle }:-)

[hacklesup]

Please be careful when you do this. What will happen if everyone on this site follows your example and goes to the middle and stirs up the bottom? You may have more turbidity and silt than the reconstruction caused. Besides, do you release these bugs unharmed after you admire them. They have a soul just like a trout. Have you no sanctity for all of God's creatures? Is the San Juan shuffle okay if all you are doing is collecting and killing insects? How would you like someone coming into your house and throwing everything around and causing all kinds of chaos in your living area?

[fishn]

I'm interested. Maybe we could do one at the UOTF Green River trip. I would like to take some samples for my desk also. I think I can get some vials from work, let me check.

Let me know when you guys plan n doing this so I can make arrangements. I would like to do this on some still water also. I think we would be amazed if we knew what the fish were eating in lakes.

Fishn (Herb)

[JayMorr]

Maybe Jason could sticky up top of this thread a "Hit List" of all the streams or stillwaters we want to study. Maybe do 1 month. I thought it would be great to have some insect samples from some of the waters a lot of us flyfish.

Glad to see a there is some interest!


JayMorr

[Lonnie]

Well, I'll cut you some slack since this is you second post. Your off to a great start.... :-)

I really don't know how to respond to this other than 1). It was originally posted as sarcasm (see devilish smiley face), and 2) insects are "r-selected" organisms . (if you don't know what that means click here....http://staffwww.fullcoll.edu/jwu/101/ecology.html) Unless we are capturing endangered insects, I don't see what your point is. We aren't going to do this on the redds, that would be a problem too. Do you REALLY think that a few people can cause as much turbidity as a trackhoe??? I have quite often released aquatic insects un-harmed into vials of alcohol (in the name of science)....

Unless your post was meant as sarcasm....

Lonnie

PS. Ahhhh, I'm having visions of fishwest.com !!!! Save me !!! :-)

[Jason]

Hackles, we'll make sure to be light in our sampling. Jaymorr is bringing his Bobcat up so our mark won't be too bad. :-) Seriously, it is a good point to not tear up the stream bottom too much. By rolling over a few rocks can provide an ample sample in most cases. I doubt we'll have 5-6 guys out in the river rumbling around in the stream bottom looking for some Baetidae & Siphlonuridae all at the same time.

[jdubya]

How would you like someone coming into your house and throwing everything around and causing all kinds of chaos in your living area?
Aren't those things called children?
But everytime I go to a stream I try to do a quick seine to check what is happening. When I don't I usualy wish I did. And no, i don't think kicking up a few rocks is gonna damage the ecosystem. The best thing is to take the critters home in a jar, stick them on the bench and use them as your own Mona Lisa.

[DrewTrout]

Those would be my children.

Lonnie, I've got about a hundred "asprin bottles" here at work that I was going to ship out to a group. If you want, I can pull those aside and save 'em for you.

[Utah DaveII]

when it comes to bugs. I'm in!

hacklesup a kick seine is not exactly the most damaging thing that can be done to a rvier. It is currently being used by Dr. Shiwozawa on the Middle and, if your using BINNS sheets, should be done everytime a trout population sample is done.

[RAW]

I think what hacklesup is trying to say without being too aggressive is: we all get so upset because of the new Middle regs about taking a few more fish, but then will go take bug life without a second thought. Think about it in these terms. Say everyone who fishes the Middle this year takes a limit of trout. Will it have an impact? Many of us think it will (some think it will have a good impact). What happens to the stream bottom and insect life if all of us take the same interest in entomology and want to take samples, kill insects, stir up the bottom everytime out? Maybe we don't see an impact right away, but overtime could it have an impact? I don't know. I do know that we get mad at cattle who are stomping in the streams but don't seem to care if it's us. Boy, where is the nearest tree?

[Trouty]

I would definitely want to be in on this one. Great idea JayMorr!!

I'd love to do it on quite a few of the rivers around. I'd like to do it in March if possible so I have some samples to show kids at the urban fishery program. Right now, the bugs would probably freeze solid before I could get one in a vial.

[lone Palm Rods]

count me in

[Crosby]

I know this came up earlier- concerning vials for this- I do have a contact that get cases of never used blood vials- free.

[Crosby]

If you can get some I would be interested in purchasing a few from you.
I said free- I will e-mail you- after I talk to someone- I know he couldn't figure out what to do with them but had 2 cases under his bed.

[Crosby]

.... But my living in Arizona now I wouldn't expect you to foot the bill for postage.. If you won't except $, I will trade you for some Simi-Seal Leeches

whatever you feel comfortable with- with as amount of UPS that we send from work- we get an amazing discount- I can send my Sage back- 2nd day air in it's tube and then in a PVC tube and insure it totally for $5.35. I know this isn't going to weigh even close to that . I'll e-mail you tomorrow.

[Trouty]

I'd be interested in some as well if your friend still has them. I have about 15 but would like at least that many more at that price!! I'll pay for shipping or meet you somewhere sometime, whatever works.

[Crosby]

I'd be interested in some as well if your friend still has them. I have about 15 but would like at least that many more at that price!! I'll pay for shipping or meet you somewhere sometime, whatever works.
Send me an e-mail with your address.

[JayMorr]

Very nice Crosby! When we get closer to doing this project I will shoot you an email to see if you have any vials left over. I will try and get my hands on some.

Thanks

JayMorr

[Trouty]

Send me an e-mail with your address.


Your e-mail is disabled on this site. Let me know where to send the e-mail or when it has been enabled.

THANKS!!!

Trouty

[Crosby]

Looks like the e-mail reply deal has been cancelled on everyone-
chris.s.crosby@email.moore.com

[jschildt]

JayMorr,

I am TOTALLY down with that. I only have 2 requests. 1. We wait til it warms a little. and 2).We do it in the day light.

I used to have a little homemade kick net. I think I "retired" it. I'll see what I can dig up. To do this right we should look at several different types of streams. If we could find some slower warmer waters (Maybe the jordan river....) we'll get different types of bugs. I would also be cool to collect some bugs and then do an indoor ID session. Anyone have access to a laptop-projector ? I've always wanted to get on of microsofts "microscopes" to attach to my PC....

I have a laptop and access to a great projector. I assume this would be for projecting large images of bugs to demonstrate what to look for and demonstrate identification techniques? If someone has a digital camera that can capture microscope images that'd be cool. If not then I'm sure there are plenty of resources (images, etc.) on the Web. Let me know if I can help in this capacity.

[Crosby]

If you can get some I would be interested in purchasing a few from you.
Fanantic- get me a ship to address- they are sitting in front of me waiting to send.

[Wayne Tobler]

Seems like a lot of folks are interested. Too few of us really know a whole lot about the "bugs" that fish eat.

[Jason B]

I have about 2 dozen glass vials with screw on lids. I will bring them with me to the green. I have been collecting bugs for the last two years. You can see what i have collected at Eddies shop. The vials there i filled last year with bugs. South Fork of Provo, Little Deer Creek, Hobble Creek, American Fork, Bridal Vail Falls, and several Uinta steams are all waters i have collected from.

[«°Ñøvã°»]

All this talk has brought up a question I have. I have heard that you can use isorphyl alcohol to preserve such samples instead of the stuff that fly shops carry at a fraction of the cost. If this is true cool, if not what are some substances you all have used in the past to preserve insects over the long haul in vails???

[nightfish]

Everclear.