George's Stonefly?

[Ed Gallop]

Does anyone have a picture or reference to this fly? Ed.

[Jason]

Referenced from Robert Williamson's, Creative Flies: Innovative Tying Techniques

It looks like George's Stonefly was tied with an over-hand weave technique. You can contact Robert at FLYWARFISH@aol.com. I'm sure he could get you a photo of it.

"Almost all fly fishers are familiar with George Grant of Montana. Grant is another one of the pioneers of weaving techniques. Grant created a process for making a woven hackle similar to Pott but slightly different. He also created a weaving technique for his Black Creeper fly. This fly was all black except for an orange interwoven or interlaced belly stripe. The tying instructions can be found in Grant's book, The Master Fly Weaver.

One of Grant's greatest accomplishments is his writing. His two books, The Master Fly Weaver and Montana Trout Flies, record for us the history and techniques for many of the woven fly patterns. It has been through the writing of Grant that many of us modern fly weavers have learned our craft.

Dan Bailey was creating a woven fly in the 1930s. His pattern was an imitation of the stoneflies found in many of the Western rivers. His woven artificial was called the Mossback and was originally tied with monofilament or horse hair. Later versions tied by other tiers were tied with different colors of nylon hair. The Dark Mossback had a black nylon hair back and a olive nylon hair belly. The Light Mossback had a dark olive nylon hair back and a cream underside. Other fly tiers have used the Bailey weave to create such flies as the Bitch Creek (woven black and orange chenille) and the George's Brown Stone (woven brown and cream yarn). The woven Polish Nymphs which are gaining in popularity look like they are created with the Bailey weave and the Pott weave."

I'm not sure if this is the original 'George's Stonefly' but it might be a spin-off. It looks like it was a Jackson Hole One Fly winner.
http://www.jhonefly.org/flies.htm
http://www.flyfishingjacksonhole.com/cgi-bin/shopper.exe?preadd=action&key=FLYS2749-46&reference=/cgi-bin/shopper.exe%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Dstonefl ynymph%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DTemplates/stonefly_nymph.html

[Ed Gallop]

Thanks Jason. I'm assuming that "George's #2" mentioned in "The River Runs Through It" is George Grant's Stonefly. I knew I'd get a good answer from you guys. This is a great bunch of tiers. I'll try to get enough information to tie some as authentic as possible. Thanks again. Ed.

[Curtis Fry]

Hey Ed, are you the same Ed that worked with the Coq de Leon and the guy (Paco?) from Spain?

[Ed Gallop]

Yes... I'm the same one. Paco is a good friend of mine. He is a veternarian that specializes and breeds Coq de Leon in Spain. They are amazing feathers for sure. If you read the web site I'm sure you found my writing interesting about the "magic" reference by the Spaniards. It is at: http://www.flytyingworld.com/PagesP/ps-coqdeleon.htm
Ed.

[Utah DaveII]

I know use some Pardo feathers from Whiting for nearly all my mayfly tails. Are the Spanish feathers really that much better and if so, what do you think about the Indi as oppossed to the Pardo?

Thanks for any information.

[Curtis Fry]

Cool. I corresponded with Paco a few years ago and exchanged some flies with him. He's a pretty interesting guy and has some nice tying methods and materials.

[RAW]

Ed,

This is my takeon Georges' Stonefly Nymph. I think it is accurate.

The weave style is originated by Dan Bailey. I believe he called it the "Mossback." Dan had a light and dark version. Originally, he used horse hair and braided it around the hook shank. When his Mossback flies were commercially available, they were tied with braided monofilament bodies. Dan originated this braiding technique.

I believe it was George Anderson of Livingston, Montana that originated the "George's Stonefly Nymph." Anderson was a Bailey guide and used brown and cream-colored wool to create the body. Of course, now we know him as the owner of George Anderson's Yellowstone Angler, in Livingston, MT

There is some debate between the origin of two seperate weaving or braiding styles. The overhand knot weave and the Bailey weave our two different techniqiues. Patterns in the past have been tied with both techniques, thus, some confusion has occured.

Hard to find books written by another George. . .George Grant out of Butte, MT give good histories and illustrations of how to perform these techniques. If you want to look for them the titles are: :The Master Fly Weaver" and "Montana Trout Flies." Published by Champoeg Press, Portland Oregon. The ones I have were numbered so they may be a little difficult to find and a little expensive.

Now, if we are talking about the fly tying George that Norman Maclean mentions in his book a "River Runs Through It" we are talking about George Croonenberghs who tied flies for the Macleans and was a fishing buddy. I believe he tied some large dry fly patterns that the macleans used.

[RAW]

Sorry. Just as a side note: If you are comparing things in the movie and things in the book, they sometimes do not fit. I'd have to go back and watch the movie again, but I think when one of the brothers says they are using a George's Stonefly #2, they are actually tying on a Bunyan Bug Yellow Stonefly #2, which was tied by Norman Means, who was a forester by profession and known as "Paul Bunyan." Norman Means had a whole series of cork-bodied dry flies back in his time (1930-ish). According to George Grant, Norman Means even signed his personal checks as Paul Bunyan. Anyway, it's a fascinating history.

[Ed Gallop]

Utah DaveII... Everything is judged differently by different people. They al have their own opinions and mine may differ from yours.

A.K. Best sent me some of Whiting's best Coq de Leon to compare. I also bought some from a catalog that was not from Spain. The latter was awful stuff but the Whiting was nice. However, even Whiting's was not as large or as glossy as the Leon bred Coq de Leon. I haven't heard from anyone that has compared say any different. Even if you compared, and Whiting was inferror, you may not think it makes any difference when on the fly, and you may very well be correct.

Curtis... I thought your name was very familiar but I don't have you listed as one of Paco's customers. I think we may have communicated a year or two ago. Anyway, Paco is an excellent tier (and angler) and has taught me a lot about Spanish fly styles and their Spanish history. It is fascinating.

RAW... Thanks for the info. I wish I had more time to devote to fly histories of the west. It is the most interesting aspect of tying in North America. I also wish I could get good information and tie some authentic flies for my Fly Tying World web site (or have someone else do it). I like what I did on the Bunyan Bug, but had conflict with the so called grandson of Means. He had a patent on the Bunyan Bug and threatened to sue me more than once just for putting information on my site about it. That is one person I do not care for.

I don't think the mention of "George's #2" is the same as the Bunyan Bug, but it could be.

I will locate those books and research more. I also want to know more about George Croonenberghs and his flies. There is so much interesting information out there and so little time to absorb it. Fly Tying is an important interest in my life, and apparently I'm not alone. You folks are the same. Ed.

[nightfish]

I've always been curious about the effectiveness of Spanish Flies.

[Grizz]

8)))

you're a horn-dog.

or corn-dog

or yorn-dog






pea's

[Ed Gallop]

LOL... Spanish flies, with Coq de Leon, is a combination that will drive trout crazy.

RAW. I think I am convinced that the reference to George's #2 is referenced to George Croonenberghs' fly, and it is not a specific fly that exist. It was referenced to the statement that “fish, like men, will sometimes strike at things just to find out what they are.” I am almost convinced that it was not a fly that can be identified. It was only a book and I'm trying to put fact to it. Duh!

I appreciate all the help because I am interested in George Grant's flies and want to create some as authentic as possible. Thanks to all. Ed.