Beginner Kit

[Mr. Loopy]

Okay all you tiers-

I want to try my hand at tying my own flies, but I don't have a lot of money to put into equipment. Nor do I want to spend a lot of money on equipment until I know if I enjoy tying or not.

My question is:

Would a kit like this

http://www.cabelasoutfitters.com/fly_tying_kits.htm

be any good? (the $29 - $49 range) Or are cheap kits a waste of time and money? Should I just keep buying all my flies until I have more dough?

[Fred]

I think that kit is okay as far as kits go.

Personally, I wouldn't go that route. You will end up replacing all that stuff if you get serious about it. If you have a friend that you can tie with or if you can take a beginner lesson, that will give you a better idea of what you need and if you need it.

My .02 cents.

[Indylab]

I agree with Fred. I bought a kit years ago and only use the tools from the kit. I would buy tools, but not materials in a kit. Buy the materials as you need them.

[Phlyfisher]

I think it's a good idea to start cheap. It's nice to be able to see if you like tying before you blow 300 bucks. I agree with Fred about finding a friend who has a vice. If you discover that you like tying, you'll be able to put money into a quality vice rather than one of the cheap ones.

[Ouzel]

nailed it. The "tying kits" are mostly a waste of money.
Do not get caught up in the 'rotary hype' either. Last Thursday night a bright girl at the Salt Lake Chapter tying session noted all the rotary vises and that not one was being used for that purpose.

The Thompson AA is inexpensive and has helped millions of fly tyers. For about $15.00 you can add the midge jaws.

Do not belive you need to spend $200.00 - $500.00 to get started in fly tying, you can get going for less then a $100.00 and still have quality tools and materials.

[icthys]

I just started tying a few months ago and asked the exact same question as you. I'm sure I'll get flack for buying a vise on ebay but I did. I got it for $30 and it is a decent vise. The next thing I did was buy material to tie just one fly, I picked a pheasant tail, one that I use a lot.

Don't waste money on a kit, you can find out if you like it by doing what I just did. once you get the basics it's not that expensive to slowly add to your materials.

Hope this helped

[LandGuppy]

I'll agree with everyone else. As a pretty inexperienced tier myself, I don't have any problems with my cheap Cabela's vise. It may not be the slickest thing on the market, but it holds hooks just fine.

Good materials definitely make it easier to tie, especially good hackles. I like the Whiting 100's because they're pre-sized, and you don't have to spend $100 on a saddle that you'll never finish using.

Sometimes those Cabela's kits will be a bargain just for the tools you get. Keep things like the yarn and floss, throw out everything else, and get some better materials. You'll be ahead in the end. Good luck.

[Trout4x]

Tie what you will use.

[D.C.]

Wow.

[carpman]

Check your local shop for a tying tool kit. It contains only the tools. Since you already fish, you know which flies you want to tie, so only buy the materials you need. As your tying improves, you will want to play with new materials to create your own patterns. Have fun tying is a blast!!!

Rotary vises..........

Although some people don't know how to use their rotary vises, I assure you if you learn to use the vise, it will improve, and speed up your tying. I have tyed on the $500.00 vises, and found that they don't do anything a $140.00 Renzetti traveler won't do. The traveler is by far my favorite vise on the market. If you can justify/afford it, I would buy one, otherwise a simple Thompson "A" vise is durable and holds the hook.

Keep tying....................

[Larry S.]

That ain't no fun! You will never expand your arsenal that way or have reason to increase your skills.

Maybe a better suggestion is :

1. Tie what you think you'll use.

2. Tie what you want to use.

3. Tie what you think you'll want to use.

4. Tie what you lost to trees.

5. Tie what your friends want.

6. Tie some of RAW's patterns

Any others? ;^)

[Fred]

Tie what's working?

[Mr. Loopy]

Wow. Thanks for the info. That helps out a ton. If I was to buy the basic tools what would they be? (I mean the bear essentials)

I figure I would start buy learning to tie just a wooley bugger. It seems to be the fly I use the most down here in Southern Utah. And I can vary the pattern according to what I need? It seems like it would be an easier fly to start with?

Another question: pretty much I have taught myself to fly fish down here because I haven't lived down here that long and don't know anyone that is into fly fishing down here. I have learned what I know on the water from what I have learned on this site and through reading. Can you learn fly tying by reading and just doing it? Or is a class/lessons a must?

[Jeff Camomile]

I think you can learn a lot about tying on your own. In fact, most of your learning will be on your own. At least that is true for me. Take a tying class if you can. It can only help. I took one about a year ago, but I must say, most everything that I have learned has been self-taught. (But that occassional tip from someone else sure helps at times!) I have only been tying for about 2 years now, and I am just finally feeling confident that I can tie almost any pattern. However, everytime I try a new pattern or technique, it takes at least half a dozen tries before it is even somewhat decent.

I would suggest, that in addition to starting with the wooley bugger, try tying something small, to get used to the wide range of hook sizes. Start with simple, threaded midge pupas, about a size 20. Those should increase your confidence, and get you a feel for the small things in the fly fishing world.

[grouser]

Check to see if your library or local fly fishing shops have instructional fly tying videos, these can be very helpful.

[Mike]

As with most things, fly tying being no exception, you get what you pay for. You can absolutely get a cheap vise and cheap materials if you want. For a lot of patterns it probably doesn't matter very much. You don't need amazing hackle or anything to tie an effective bugger.

The minimum tools needed:

- vise ($35)
- scissors ($10)
- bobbin ($5)

These tools alone if you're being frugal are going to run about $50. Some people would put a whip finisher up there too, but you can do that by hand if you're really that concerned about buying the absolute minimum. The same goes for hackle pliers.

Now you're tying a bugger... Let's assume 1 color, 1 size is perfect for all of your needs:

- box of size 8 3x long hooks ($4)
- Whiting bugger pack ($10)
- spool of thread ($2)
- package of chenille ($3)
- maribou ($3)

You're almost at $75.00 now for tying one type of bugger. Feel those savings!

[carpman]

A customer friend of mine (I think he's on here but I don't know his handle) did some sort of research paper to see if tying your own flies actually saves money. The results ended up a no way to argue NO WAY!!! He found it wasn't likely to save you anything at all. On the contrary, it cost quite a bit more, and that wasn't even factoring in your time. I am a firm believer of this theory. I do however, tie all my own flies, (as well as many others). I also think people are nuts to build a rod to save money. By the time you build it, buy a sock, and a case, you are near the original price of the rod. If and really when, you break it you usually have to buy some new components, which gets especially expensive when you break the butt section. By the time you pay for the shipping (to and from the manufacturer) buy the new components and spend the extra time re-building, there is no possible way to end up on top.

On the other hand, building a custom rod the way you want with the colors you choose and with your own flair, that is the right reason to build a rod. Likewise, tying your own flies opens a whole new side to fly fishing, tying to save money is ludacris, but tying just to tie, that is pure art......................

[carpman]

fshfanatic, thats exactly the right idea.............. Do it because you love it not because of the cost...........

[MWSpearo]

I agree that you should tie because you like it but......

I just finished tying a new bugger box. It has 6 different colors. In size 6, 8, and 10 both beaded and unbeaded for a total of 216 flies. Now buggers are on the cheap side to tie but the materials for all the flies cost $45. Thats $.21 each. I had the "tools" already so it is difficult to factor that in but when you are producing large quantities of flys it can be cost effective.

What can't be factored into the cost is hard to find or self created patterns.

Just a thought!

[Mike]

I tie for 2 reasons basically:

- I enjoy it a great deal. There's nothing like catching fish on your own flies. I'm sure that everyone remembers the first fish that they caught on a home grown fly!

- It's convenient. It's great to be able to go home and tie a good representation of what's on a given water. You can't always find the right thing at a shop -- or there might not even be a shop for that matter.

Also, there are certainly some day to day savings involved if you tie enough. You can tie midge patterns for next to nothing for example. I love seeing "thread midges" at fly shops!

[walksinwater]

A good read before you buy.
A.K. Best's Production Fly Tying.

This book was loaned to me from Ouzel. It contains a wealth of information about tools, how to use them, station set up, what to look for in material before you purchase etc.

You can also check out www.flyanglersonline.com. There is a section for beginging tyers, which has articles on buying tools, material, and beginging patterns and techniques for tying.


Buy tools, that are not pricey, but that are of a qood quality. This I can assure you, that you will have no regrets.

The "Tool Kits" WILL be a regretful disappointment.


WARNING:
Upon landing a fish, with a fly that is your own tye. You will find celestial joy to no equal.

[Jeff Camomile]

Mike: Don't you just love it when those thread midges cost $2.00 a piece, in some fly shops!

You just have to tie, if you want that fly to look just right. Whether it saves money or not is debatable. If fly tying does not save money, I believe there is at least a "psychological money saving factor." I spent a good $500 (maybe more) in my first year in fly tying. In my second year of tying, I have spent probably not much more than $75 or so. In the next year of tying, it will be probably less. My point is, once you get the initial investment of most of the equipment and materials, it just doesn't seem like it costs that much thereafter.

Just a thought: If tying does not save money, then how do people make a profit on selling flies?

[Larry S.]

By going to Thialand.

[RAW]

My vise that I tie on at home is a Thompson. I don't buy rooster necks. Lots of hair from the taxidermist. Materials from the craft store. I'm the fly shop owners worst customer, although, I do consider them my friends. I'm cheap. I even worry about the durability of my flies because I can't see catching just one trout and having it come apart. I am self-taught through tying books.

Good scissors a must!

Watch as many demo tiers as you can. Most of the neat little tricks are gleaned from watching expert tiers at demos and shows. Some are simply amazing. I have found that most fly tiers are really good people willing to share and teach.

[Trout4x]

Go tie a Brassie & go buy one see how much you save. No you won't save money if you try and tie every fly out there. Keep it simple tie what you will use.

[Ralph]

For the tools question my 2 bits are to buy the tools that you need and then buy the material for the flies that you use or want to use. Some kits are better than others, but most don't have what you really want and you end up buying it anyway.

For how to learn:
Check your local library for good fly tying videos.
While on the web, type in fly tying in a good search engine like google and check out some of the results. There are some good sights out there with some good instruction for tying. There is even a PBS station that has a sight with fly tying instruction with the video included. Take a class if one is offered in your area (check out the local shops, Hursts or Red Rock). All are good sources.