Mike
07-16-2002, 07:05 AM
***** On Crowding *****
I'll lay it on the table for you guys... I do believe that reports are at least partially responsible for crowding. I also believe that there are spots that while not secret, don't need any public advertising. Then there are those places that I'm firmly convinced are pretty much busy all of the time regardless of reports.
I find it very difficult to stomach the idea that via this site I personally am responsible in any way, shape or form for adding pressure to our local waters -- particularly the lesser known ones. That's not a position that I have any desire to be in. After all, I am the same guy that rolls up to a spot, sees more cars than I would normally expect and says: "Where the hell did all these people come from?!" How hypocritical would I be if I:
a) thought this site might be a factor in crowding
b) moaned privately or publicly about the number of people I saw on the river
It's a shame that there's no scientific study that has tried to link fishing reports and crowding. Given that fact, at this point any conclusions about the matter are all complete speculation on everyone's part. My gut tells me there's at least some validity to the whole theory. Again, since there's no official data on the matter, what else is there to go on but what your gut tells you?
To those who post comments like: "I don't magically fly down to the river when I read a report." That's great and I absolutely believe you! Unfortunately there are about 600 other people here reading the reports who didn't speak up on the subject. That's not to say that all those people run out and go fishing whenever they hear it's hot -- but what if even 5% of them do? There are a couple of places that I fish that are "crowded" if there are more than 2 or 3 people there. Are those places "secret" or "mine" alone? Nope, but I'm sure as heck not going to wander around telling people what a great day I had fishing at [insert quiet place here].
So some of you will say, "hey, let's just have reports on the 'busy' spots..." Of course that sounds very reasonable. However there then comes the inevitable and unending argument about which spots should be reported on and which shouldn't. We've seen it here since the site was started. I don't think that we'll all suddenly come to any consensus on the subject unfortunately.
***** On Charging *****
I know that a few of you have mentioned either recently or previously that you'd be willing to pay money to access the site. There are a lot of problems inherent in us letting people do that. Once you start accepting money for a service, you're running a business. That's the bottom line. Running a business involves incorporating, filing taxes, getting a corporate bank account, etc.... It's a heck of a lot of work.
If we went that way with this site, you'd all end up paying for a lot more than bandwidth. There's a great deal of time and money involved in running even a small business. Never mind that people "paying" for the site will start expecting services that "non-paying" people didn't have and I'd have to do some custom programming to make it all work, etc.... I have considered that problem at length, and it just doesn't seem feasible to charge people. I'd love to think that people appreciate the site enough to pay for access, but that's not the reality. Most people like it because it's informative and free -- and that's fine. To those who would pay, thanks very much, I'm glad that you enjoy it that much.
Maybe someday we'll be forced to charge for the site, or solicit donations. I suspect that the latter is a better idea. Either way, that day isn't here yet. Until it is, there's no need to worry about it. As needed we have implemented measures to keep everything running smoothly. To date that has worked well, so we'll continue to do it that way.
***** On Complaints *****
I'm sorry that many of you clearly don't like the current report experiment. I will reiterate... There is a lot more to this site than fishing reports! If that's all that you're taking away from here, or all that you enjoy, you're not availing yourself of the many other resources here. This site has spawned cleanup efforts, fly tying clubs, BBQ's, road trips and countless new friendships and associations.
I have said this before on a couple of occasions. If you don't like the way that this site is run and / or think that you can do a better job, please do! That's exactly how this site got started as a matter of fact. Jason and I didn't like what was available as far as Utah fly fishing websites were concerned and so we started this one. Please feel absolutely free to spend your personal time and money developing another Utah fly fishing website that you have absolute control over.
Please don't think that we don't consider your suggestions. We do. However this particular matter isn't up for discussion at the moment.
***** In Summary *****
For the most part, I very much enjoy running and hosting this site! I think that it's a great resource for local fly fisherman. I also think that it will remain as such whether you can post a report or not.
Having to ask for a report as opposed to letting people just report on whatever they want just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I'm not asking anyone to not post their stories or relay their experiences. I'm simply asking people not to post one single detail -- that being the exact location that they were fishing. I'm also not stopping anyone from getting a report. If you want one, ask for one. Somebody will send you the info.
I understand that's it's not as fun or as cool as the old reports forum. However, I do believe that it's more responsible. So for now -- for better or worse -- that's the way it is. If you don't like it, that's fine. You're totally entitled to your opinion on the matter! You're allowed to disagree. I just don't want hear about it here anymore please.
I feel a personal responsibilty, however misquided you think it may be, to run this site in a manner that has a minimal impact on the waters that we all fish.
Tight lines to all!
Mike
I'll lay it on the table for you guys... I do believe that reports are at least partially responsible for crowding. I also believe that there are spots that while not secret, don't need any public advertising. Then there are those places that I'm firmly convinced are pretty much busy all of the time regardless of reports.
I find it very difficult to stomach the idea that via this site I personally am responsible in any way, shape or form for adding pressure to our local waters -- particularly the lesser known ones. That's not a position that I have any desire to be in. After all, I am the same guy that rolls up to a spot, sees more cars than I would normally expect and says: "Where the hell did all these people come from?!" How hypocritical would I be if I:
a) thought this site might be a factor in crowding
b) moaned privately or publicly about the number of people I saw on the river
It's a shame that there's no scientific study that has tried to link fishing reports and crowding. Given that fact, at this point any conclusions about the matter are all complete speculation on everyone's part. My gut tells me there's at least some validity to the whole theory. Again, since there's no official data on the matter, what else is there to go on but what your gut tells you?
To those who post comments like: "I don't magically fly down to the river when I read a report." That's great and I absolutely believe you! Unfortunately there are about 600 other people here reading the reports who didn't speak up on the subject. That's not to say that all those people run out and go fishing whenever they hear it's hot -- but what if even 5% of them do? There are a couple of places that I fish that are "crowded" if there are more than 2 or 3 people there. Are those places "secret" or "mine" alone? Nope, but I'm sure as heck not going to wander around telling people what a great day I had fishing at [insert quiet place here].
So some of you will say, "hey, let's just have reports on the 'busy' spots..." Of course that sounds very reasonable. However there then comes the inevitable and unending argument about which spots should be reported on and which shouldn't. We've seen it here since the site was started. I don't think that we'll all suddenly come to any consensus on the subject unfortunately.
***** On Charging *****
I know that a few of you have mentioned either recently or previously that you'd be willing to pay money to access the site. There are a lot of problems inherent in us letting people do that. Once you start accepting money for a service, you're running a business. That's the bottom line. Running a business involves incorporating, filing taxes, getting a corporate bank account, etc.... It's a heck of a lot of work.
If we went that way with this site, you'd all end up paying for a lot more than bandwidth. There's a great deal of time and money involved in running even a small business. Never mind that people "paying" for the site will start expecting services that "non-paying" people didn't have and I'd have to do some custom programming to make it all work, etc.... I have considered that problem at length, and it just doesn't seem feasible to charge people. I'd love to think that people appreciate the site enough to pay for access, but that's not the reality. Most people like it because it's informative and free -- and that's fine. To those who would pay, thanks very much, I'm glad that you enjoy it that much.
Maybe someday we'll be forced to charge for the site, or solicit donations. I suspect that the latter is a better idea. Either way, that day isn't here yet. Until it is, there's no need to worry about it. As needed we have implemented measures to keep everything running smoothly. To date that has worked well, so we'll continue to do it that way.
***** On Complaints *****
I'm sorry that many of you clearly don't like the current report experiment. I will reiterate... There is a lot more to this site than fishing reports! If that's all that you're taking away from here, or all that you enjoy, you're not availing yourself of the many other resources here. This site has spawned cleanup efforts, fly tying clubs, BBQ's, road trips and countless new friendships and associations.
I have said this before on a couple of occasions. If you don't like the way that this site is run and / or think that you can do a better job, please do! That's exactly how this site got started as a matter of fact. Jason and I didn't like what was available as far as Utah fly fishing websites were concerned and so we started this one. Please feel absolutely free to spend your personal time and money developing another Utah fly fishing website that you have absolute control over.
Please don't think that we don't consider your suggestions. We do. However this particular matter isn't up for discussion at the moment.
***** In Summary *****
For the most part, I very much enjoy running and hosting this site! I think that it's a great resource for local fly fisherman. I also think that it will remain as such whether you can post a report or not.
Having to ask for a report as opposed to letting people just report on whatever they want just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I'm not asking anyone to not post their stories or relay their experiences. I'm simply asking people not to post one single detail -- that being the exact location that they were fishing. I'm also not stopping anyone from getting a report. If you want one, ask for one. Somebody will send you the info.
I understand that's it's not as fun or as cool as the old reports forum. However, I do believe that it's more responsible. So for now -- for better or worse -- that's the way it is. If you don't like it, that's fine. You're totally entitled to your opinion on the matter! You're allowed to disagree. I just don't want hear about it here anymore please.
I feel a personal responsibilty, however misquided you think it may be, to run this site in a manner that has a minimal impact on the waters that we all fish.
Tight lines to all!
Mike