Not related to fishing. Beware!!!!

[jonescort]

This has nothing to do with fishing. I am sorry if you feel it useless than delete it. It may same weird coming from a 15 year old but this has become increasingly popular in my generation for some reason. Withing the past 6 months, 4 of my acquainted/friend have committed suicide by hanging themselves. All between the age of 13-16. 1 cousin, 1 close friends, 2 friends close friends that I had met and hung out with on multiple occasions. All of them talked about there parents blowing them off saying they were always acting like a teenager. Most of there parents just thought it was a phase. They were having some problems they felt were serious and instead of there parents talking about what was wrong (I know that sounds girly) and just assumed they were moody, hormonal teens. These were all guys that preformed this act upon themselves. All in utah. I just figured that you don't often hear from the perspective of the kids that witnessed the spiraling of the individual. Now the majority of people won't have a problem with there kids, to me the thought of taking my life, even in the worst situations, never seemed appealing. But I have had people I know attempt, and 4 succeed. Please just be aware and take notice of your kids.

[gnfishn]

Cort, I am sorry for the loss of your friends. Man that is harsh to loose one let alone 4! I don't understand what is going on either, it must be a lot tougher growing up these days than it use to be. But I do think you are on to something with your comment on their relationships with their families and their parents blowing them off. Maybe it is the technology age where a lot if not most communication even within families is via email or text messaging. It seems like fewer and fewer families do things together, even eating meals. What ever it is, it is scarry. Teens especially need to feel belonging and valued in a family. I lost a beautiful niece a year and a half ago, just like your friends and cousin, she hung herself. She was 14!!! She was very popular and had a lot of friends and was very outgoing and friendly. We'll never know why she felt so hopeless as to take such drastic measures, but I do think you are on the right track Cort. You also gave great advise, even if it is coming from a 15 year old who doesn't know how to spell ;) .....all of you who have children should not take them for granted. Life is fragile. Give your kids a hug and ask them how their day was and then LISTEN. Again, I'm sorry for your loss Cort.

[Improv]

Pretty heavy stuff Cort, but some great advice. Because I work in the ICU, I get to see a lot of suicide attempts and I’m still amazed at how many parents when they learn that their child has attempted such a thing are completely surprised.

Keep in mind that generally a lot more goes into suicide or a suicide attempt then just having a bad day, or lack of attention from a parent or guardian.
Mental illness would account for 90% of all suicide and attempts. Generally, mental illness is something that most of us know very little about and even less of us truly understand the disabling effects of depression. I think for the most part people take the attitude that people can just “cheer up” or “get over it”, but it doesn’t work that way. I would agree that parents and friends all need to be acutely aware of our loved ones and take particular notice of changes in their activities of daily living. Some of the warning signs might be quite obvious, such as not getting out of bed, lack of appetite, not going to work, etc… but sometimes it’s a littler harder to know. I know you said that this wasn’t fishing related, but I like what Norman Maclean had to say about giving help.

"Help is giving part of yourself to somebody who comes to accept it willing and needs it badly.”

"So it is that we can seldom help anybody. Either we don't know what part to give or maybe we don't like to give any part of ourselves. Then, more often than not, the part that is needed is not wanted. And even more often, we do not have the part that is needed. It is like the auto-supply shop over town where they always say, 'Sorry, we are just out of that part.”

Sorry for your loss Cort. Keep fishing - it will cure what ails ya!

[Spartagain]

Personally, it pains me to see what friends of mine have experienced while I was growing up. I definitely agree with you cort, the family often needs to be involved, and increasingly aren't.

I remember in my early teens (I look back now and recognize what it was) I went through a minor depression after losing two of my grandparents within a year of each other. I was increasingly angry and would fight someone at the drop of a hat. My grades which for the most part of my life were exceptional went to being barely better that pathetic. And a few other small signs. My parents and family were very attentive and had me go through counseling with our minister. I look back upon this period of my life, and realize that without my parents and family seeing this, I might have done something drastic. Or at the very least have been in a very different place than I am now.

I feel pity for anyone who is going through this, and would gladly do anything within my power to assist them. But, as has been my experience with the few I have been close enough to really see the change. It is just as Improv quoted "often times we do not even know which part of ourselves to give." But keep trying any ways, even if they are not responding they might be listening.

I had a room mate once who was going through a big change, his personality changed for the worse, and was really messing with his future. I continuously tried to coax him out of it, but it seemed to have not worked. I spoke to him on the phone a few weeks back and he told me how he had gotten his life back together, and said that now he wishes he had taken my advice when I had tried to tell him. Even though you may feel what you are trying to do isn't working it doesn't hurt to keep trying. Because at some level they hear it, and maybe if they are lucky they will hear enough to see that a change needs to be made.

[jonescort]

Thanks guys. I really wasn't looking for pity. I was mainly just trying to get people to just take this into consideration, and hopefully take a closer look.

[S&P]

Did all these kids know eachother Cort? I remember when a buddy of mine found a body in a car in the Orem foothills some years back that turned out to be a suicide. Within a day another kid took his life the same way and another attempted to. It turned out to be a pact that the 3 made with eachother.

I'm just wondering if all these kids ran with the same group or if the deaths are related in any way. Good on you Cort for bringing attention to this issue. I go to annual suicide prevention training and deal with this issue in a secure facility regularly and one thing they tell us all the time is that there are nearly always warning signs if we are looking for them. Most suicides can be prevented but if someone is truly determined, they will find a way.

[«°Ñøvã°»]

Thanks Cort, although I dont have any kids of my own thumbs up for bringing that to the attention of us older folks. I think hearing that from a person on your level should make us even more cautious to talk to our kids more often. I had problems as well as a few friends growing up. Even had a few close friends off themselves and its never fun. The few times it has happened there were changes in thier lifestyle but it was never noticed to much or just brushed off.

[SnakesOnAPlane]

It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall to watch what kids and teenagers do these days and how they interact with each other.
When it comes time to parenting, I hope that I'd have the ability to watch how my children interact with different situations at school: with the less popular kids, with the bullies, with the girls, with the jocks, etc.

It seems like there is a fine line of reaction when kids are bullied/teased at school: A) Either they can follow good examples and either turn the other cheek, or stand up to the one(s) that are bothering them. Or B), they can bring a gun to school and waste everybody (Columbine), or in this instance, commit suicide.

At my high school, as freshmen, our heads were shaved. If the seniors had a bad day, they would find one of us and throw us in their truck and go shave it again. Some tradition, eh? It's absolutely ridiculous. No trial of manhood or popularity should be reflected on how you look with a shaved head. It's pretty damn humiliating when all you are trying to do is either blend in with the woodwork and you are set aside socially. Teenage years, just like all adolescent years are fragile. We break away from our parents' image and we blaze our own path through our lives to find some kind of identity. It is and was tough.

I would suggest to those who already have kids to try and intervene when possible to see how these/your kids are treating each other. I don't know if behavior like that can be changed, or not, but it sure seems like a good idea to check in with your kids and make sure they are treating people with kindness, or that they are staying out of the dick kids way. There is plenty incentive for all who choose to treat people with utmost respect. This is a lesson for me as well, of course.

Sorry Cort, that's messed up. Having lost a friend jumping off 1700 E I-80 bridge in high school, I can tell you that time is able to heal those wounds, but often we are left with deeper questions than we may be able to find the answers to. Keep strong and keep your chin up. A day of fishing on a peaceful river can calm even the deepest woes.

Peace bro

SOAP

[wildnative]

Too much pressure on kids now. They can't just be kids. Society wants them to grow up fast, be successful (whatever that is) and be popular, a jock or be outgoing. We tend to place kids in all these weird catagories and label them. Many feel they can't live up to societies expectations.

I see it in sports. How many dads out there played high school sports and then push their kids to be something in sports? They have leagues that start just after they are out of diapers. I'm not saying sports is bad, in fact, I believe the discipline, work ethic, and total experience is good, it's just that there are limited opportunities available but so much emphasis on such a narrow focus of life. Not all kids are going to make it and it can hurt for years and sometimes lifetimes. I've seen dads hold grudges against coaches for years because their kid didn't make the team. Kids can sense it. I'm sure it happens in other areas of life to (academics, professions, the arts, church).

I remember having a second grade teacher tell me that one of my kids wasn't going to be successful. She could find nothing good with the kid and he could sense it. Second grade! Come to find out, the teacher had a mental illness that was undiagonosed.

I don't know what the answers are, I just know that we treat people the way we view them (me included) and we can be viscious. We need to see value in everyone. Bad things can happen when we don't view people for who they really are. Look at the great evils in the world from failure to view people correctly: Genocide, ethnic cleansing, racism and others. When we see people in the proper way we will love and lift them instead of devalue and dismiss them.

Sorry for the losses Cort. It's tough.

[Grizz]

That's terrible news Cort, my condolences go out to you & to the families.

It's too bad that so many find suicide as the only answer. Many troubled teens turn to drugs, self affliction, porn, drink, violence or in this sad case, suicide. The only difference among the previously mentioned is that all but suicide can be healed & rectified. There's often nowhere to lay the blame, but many will try to pin it somewhere, be it the parents, friends, pastors, teachers or the teens themselves. Often times there are signs that are as clear as the blue sky, but not given the validity these signs deserve. Most often the signs are discarded as a cry out for attention & not a cry out for help in easing the pain & alienation. I can recall many a time, during my youth, when a peers threats of suicide were perceived more as a "hey look at me" antic more so than the serious & genuine nature of their cries. Luckily, most of these cries were listened to & people interacted to halt any un-reversible action. I think we all need to watch, listen & learn from everyone around us & if we see something out of the ordinary or a "sign", we need to act on it without prejudice or pride. The young mind is easily turned, but not so much when it goes as far as suicide before we ever get the chance.

Take notice of those around you & realize how fragile & short life can really be.

peace

[rrswens]

Cort Great Thread!!!... I have a close friend whose grandson did the same thing.... In doing some research I found that this "Hanging" deal is a way some youth get high... They deprive the brain of O2 and love the feeling. Sometimes it just goes too far..... I find it interesting that even with so much peer presher not to drink or do drugs some kids have to get the high some other way....
Now to bring this to fishing.... My good friend had just finished a week on the Green with his grandson and was so happy to have a new fishing buddy that had the same passion as he does.... He built a monument and it's on the green river... Now as I go past I have to stop, do some reflecting and shed a few tears...

[chris]

There was a recent news story regarding a game kids are playing cutting off blood flow to the brain because of the euphoric responce it gives when the blood rushes back in by strangling themselves. Parents were pleading nationally about this game to get other parents attention because they had lost children to it. Was there any of this going on?? Or did they just plain hang themselves?
Sorry for your loss Cort.

[mvtoro]

Kids were doing the "blood depravation to brain" game back before I was even in high school. Instead of hanging, though, they would stand against a wall and lean down with their head between their knees and then snap up straight and another kid would squeeze his hands against his neck pushing it into the wall (cutting off the carotid arteries).
The kid would pass out and fall down, sometimes spasming, sometimes looking around like they're awake but not really in control of their body and wouldn't remember what was going on afterward.
I can't tell you if it gave you a high or a rush, because I never tried it myself. I was always way too fond of oxygen.

I have to think that these kids actually wanted to kill themselves. If you just want to deprive youself of oxygen, you don't do it in a way where if you pass out you end up dead. ie. you don't hang with your feet off the ground.

If you are trying to keep your kids alive (and someone already mentioned it) have family meals together. There was a study done on adolescent mental health (I'll try to find and post it. I hate hearing anecdotal "facts" too) and it found that this one habit in families above all others was most closely correlated with emotional and mental well-being of the kids in the family. That means that the meals themselves aren't necessarily what keeps kids right, but if you're having meals together, you're probably doing whatever else you need to do to keep your kids right. (you're thinking about your family as a whole more, getting together very regularly, talking much more frequently, have an opportunity to notice changes in behavior, attitude, depression, etc.)

[Spartagain]

My good friend had just finished a week on the Green with his grandson and was so happy to have a new fishing buddy that had the same passion as he does.... He built a monument and it's on the green river... Now as I go past I have to stop, do some reflecting and shed a few tears...


Do you know where he put it? It might be interesting to check it out as I float by.