Your Favorite Tailwater Rod?

[Salmo22]

I looking to get a new rod that is specifically focused on fishing western tailwaters like the San Juan, Lee's Ferry, Green River, etc. It would also be used on rivers like the Henry's Fork and Madison. It needs to generate sufficient line speed to handle the windy conditions often found on these rivers, protect light tippets, and effectively deliver both dry flies and nymphs. It also needs to handle casting/fishing with indicators. I've got sufficient 5 and 6 weights to handle streamers.

It is going to be a custom rod built on a very high quality blank. I leaning towards a 4-weight in the 8'-6" range. I've been using 8'-6" rods for many years and prefer their accuracy over the minor increase in mending help derived from 9' rods. I prefer a rod with a fairly stiff butt section and a quick tip to facilitate tight loop delivery against or across the wind. The quick tip section also needs to facilitate effective delivery of flies at close range (i.e. 20'). Unless it is stiff as a board, any 4-weight that meets this criteria should protect fine tippets while fighting some of the larger trout that can be occasionally hunted in these waters.

I recently cast a friends 4-weight XP and found it to be a tremendous rod. If Sage still made the XP series, I would get one of their 4-weight blanks and get the project started. Since I can't find XP blanks anywhere, I'm currently eyeing a Winston BIIx blank.

What are your suggestions and experiences? What is your favorite tailwater rod?

Thanks.

[jdubya]

Sage 586 z-axis. hot stick.

[Curtis Fry]

Don't mess around with a 5 wt. 4 wt all the way. Z-axis would be a great choice, though.

[Southpaw]

Try Customtackle.com. They seem to have XP blanks.
http://www.customtackle.com/cgi-bin/cts/ctstore.cgi?page=sagexp.html&cart_id=4842332_5200&partner=cts

[Addict]

Salmo22,

I also love my 490 XP. I have a 590 as well but it is collecting dust. If you are looking for a rod that produces high line speed and you want more tippet protection look at getting a SigV from Dan Craft.

As much as I love my Sage 4 wt. the Dan Craft rods are my favorite. They give you more tippet protection, yet have to power to cast in windy conditions. I fish SE Idaho all the time and you deal with wind everytime you go out it seems. I can go to a smaller tippet size with my Dan Craft rod. They are fast action rods but have a deeper flex than the XP's.

Addict

[Lonnie]

All you 4 weight pansies. As soon as the wind starts to blow or you need to huck the meat, you'll wish you had a 6 wt. Learn to cast an you can present small flies with the same care as a 4. Plus the extra backbone help hucking 2 flies, indicator and lead.

So, no need to get a new rod, just take your favorite 9' 6wt and call it good.....

L

[chanceb]

All you 4 weight pansies. As soon as the wind starts to blow or you need to huck the meat, you'll wish you had a 6 wt. Learn to cast an you can present small flies with the same care as a 4. Plus the extra backbone help hucking 2 flies, indicator and lead.

So, no need to get a new rod, just take your favorite 9' 6wt and call it good.....

L
Yeah, but with that heavy stick, you can't even feel the 12" trout you just hooked.

[Grizz]

Yeah, but with that heavy stick, you can't even feel the 12" trout you just hooked.

12" would be quite an accomplishment for the old Lonnster.

;-)

peace

[Lonnie]

Yeah, but with that heavy stick, you can't even feel the 12" trout you just hooked.

Only a problem if you fish the pro-no....

[styan]

So, no need to get a new rod, just take your favorite 9' 6wt and call it good.....

You can't be serious.....if you can't cast a 4wt in fishable wind and have to fish a 6 wt just to cope....pfffttt.....man up!

[jim m.]

So I'm looking into the BXii 9' 6wt right now just because of this very need: big water and wind.
I'm surprised to see the support for the 4 wt. as a solution to this.
Why is that?

[styan]

So I'm looking into the BXii 9' 6wt right now just because of this very need: big water and wind.
I'm surprised to see the support for the 4 wt. as a solution to this.
Why is that?

I guess it depends on WHAT tailwater....comes in all sizes. Never fish my 6 wt., 5 wt is my go to stick when the 3 wt can't manage the fish size or elements. Had one day a few weeks ago where I couldn't land several pigs but haven't been "blown off" the water yet. I also don't need to make 40' casts.

[Cary]

trout are for fags.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Grizz]

trout are for fags.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

You Salty Dog.

peace

[jim m.]

[QUOTE=styan;174848]I guess it depends on WHAT tailwater....comes in all sizes./QUOTE]

The B section of the Green pushed me to this thought over the weekend. I could see a fast action 6 being really nice on the Ranch too.

My go to rod is a- Winston IM6 5wt. Followed by a Winston IM6 3 wt.
Both are slower rods. So my thinking is a faster action rod and an increase in line weight (as opposed to yet another 5 wt) will help me beat the wind some and eek out some more distance. My IM6s seem to loose it when I'm trying to punch line (35' -40' plus) into the wind. I know some of its me, but still??

In my thinking a 4 wt would be counter productive. Unless it was significantly faster that my 5 wt.
I'm confused.

[Fred]

In the original questoin, he says he has "sufficient" 5 and 6 wts. for streamers.

That said, I would also go with the 4 wt. XP because it handles a lot like a 5 wt and it's a fun rod to fish. I also have the 5 wt. and on the Madison I would probably like it better because you need more weight and bigger indicators to fish nymphs in that fast moving water.

The wind is definitely a factor to consider, but in most situations the 4 wt. is ideal and more fun to catch fish with. It is also much better for presenting small dries on the ranch, green, etc.

My first rods for fishing the rivers in the west were 6 wts, but they feel like broom sticks now. I would never go back. They're stillwater rods.

4 wt. XP would be my top pick. I had a chance to fish a 5 wt. Echo2 over the weekend and that rod offers a lot of bang for the buck, but not sure about custom building one. Ask Jason.

[JayMorr]

In this situation and the waters Salmo mentioned I think the only way you get away with the 4 is by overloading it a bit with line. With that said I agree with Jim.


I am usually fishing either a 3 or a 5.
JayMorr

[cardiac]

I looking to get a new rod that is specifically focused on fishing western tailwaters like the San Juan, Lee's Ferry, Green River, etc. It would also be used on rivers like the Henry's Fork and Madison. It needs to generate sufficient line speed to handle the windy conditions often found on these rivers, protect light tippets, and effectively deliver both dry flies and nymphs. It also needs to handle casting/fishing with indicators. I've got sufficient 5 and 6 weights to handle streamers.

It is going to be a custom rod built on a very high quality blank. I leaning towards a 4-weight in the 8'-6" range. I've been using 8'-6" rods for many years and prefer their accuracy over the minor increase in mending help derived from 9' rods. I prefer a rod with a fairly stiff butt section and a quick tip to facilitate tight loop delivery against or across the wind. The quick tip section also needs to facilitate effective delivery of flies at close range (i.e. 20'). Unless it is stiff as a board, any 4-weight that meets this criteria should protect fine tippets while fighting some of the larger trout that can be occasionally hunted in these waters.

I recently cast a friends 4-weight XP and found it to be a tremendous rod. If Sage still made the XP series, I would get one of their 4-weight blanks and get the project started. Since I can't find XP blanks anywhere, I'm currently eyeing a Winston BIIx blank.

What are your suggestions and experiences? What is your favorite tailwater rod?

Thanks.

I would say check out a C.F. Burkheimer. You might have heard of them.

:^)

[Salmo22]

I would say check out a C.F. Burkheimer. You might have heard of them.

:^)

Alan - I have been giving that notion some serious consideration. It would be fun to get a custom taper 4-weight for this type of fishing. Rene Harrop fishes a 4-weight Burky on the Fork. He says it allows him to generate the line speed necessary to overcome the wind. Based on a conversation I had with him last year, he's landed some very large rainbows using light tippet on the Fork using the 4-weight Burky. Actually, Harrop's rod is what gave me the idea for a specialized tailwater rod in the first place.

On the other hand, Harrop's wife uses a 6-weight where he uses the 4-weight. He says it is simply a matter of casting ability. His wife is not a strong caster so she uses a 6-weight with slightly longer leader/tippet to accomplish the same stealth he does with his 4-weight. Come to think of it, when the wind is blowing the water is usually broken with ripples that would help mask the 6-weight line and negate any advantage of the 4-weight.

Heck, maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to get another rod ;-)

[UGAflyguy]

8'8" 4wt. Scott G2, nuff said.

[cheech]

8'8" 4wt. Scott G2, nuff said.

Word. Except mine is a 9 footer.

[Marty]

C.F. Burkheimer 9' 456. If you need help getting one let me know. He will sell just the blank. No question best high end rod out there.

[Trav]

Salmo,

I spent a couple hours casting the rods at TroutHunter a few weeks ago and the Burk's are very nice. As you know, he weights/labels the rods in 3,4,5 and 4,5,6 or something like that. The one I cast was the 8'9" or 6 I cannot remember but it cast much better with the 4 weight line as apposed to the 5 wt. It cast very smooth and was fun.

Personally, I use my Wintson WT 5 and IM6 6 wt for the HF and Madison with most of my fishing up there using the 6wt becuase I like the slower rods myself and the 6wt will cast through the wind no problems. It's a little different than most of the Harrop's and Lawsons in the area as they typically use fast action 4wt's. Anyhoo, if you like a slower rod a 6wt would suit the larger rivers...I think anyway.

Trav

[nativecutt]

8'8" 4wt. Scott G2, nuff said. Pickin' mine up in a few days!! You can't be free if you don't cast a G :)

[UGAflyguy]

Pickin' mine up in a few days!! You can't be free if you don't cast a G :)

You won't regret.

Word. Except mine is a 9 footer.

9s are nice for the extra punch into the wind, and the advantage for high stickin. Word.

[nativecutt]

[QUOTE=UGAflyguy;175016]You won't regret.
I have the 8'4" 3 weight and fish it on a tailwater.

[cardiac]

Jeff, get ahold of Marty and get yourself another Burky. It eats Scott's alive......




Ok, I really don't know if it does. Scott, Sage, Sweetgrass, Wright McGill, Burkheimer. Get what tickles your fancy and then let me try it.


XXXXXOOOOOXXXXOOO

[Marty]

Little known fact, all rods will handle 3 line weights. The reason rod manufactures designate only one line weight to each of their rods is to sell more rods. Burkheimer (Kerry) designs all of his rods to perform with 3 line weights. His 456 will load with a DT 4 with minimal effort and protects even the finest tippits. Put a DT or WF 5 the rod starts to load into the mid section, perfect for normal nymphing and mid size dries. With a 5 weight line you can beat the wind and even cast larger yarn indicators. Put on a WF6 and you can turn over the big bugs like a adult salmon fly. I love all four of my Gs but if you are looking for something real special go with the Burky.

[chanceb]

Do the Burkheimers come with an unconditional warranty? I'm a realist, for me it's not if, but when I break it.

[Salmo22]

Do the Burkheimers come with an unconditional warranty? I'm a realist, for me it's not if, but when I break it.

I must admit I've never paid much attention to the warranty on Burkheimer's blanks. I believe the guys at Trouthunters said his completely built rods have an industry standard warrenty. Since I get the blanks and build custom, I'm not sure what is or is not covered. Kerry Burkheimer is a great guy and I believe he would take care of me - even if I slam my rod in the truck door (it wouldn't be the first time). Probably a minimal fee to repair or replace.

[Salmo22]

Jeff, get ahold of Marty and get yourself another Burky. It eats Scott's alive......




Ok, I really don't know if it does. Scott, Sage, Sweetgrass, Wright McGill, Burkheimer. Get what tickles your fancy and then let me try it.


XXXXXOOOOOXXXXOOO

Alan - you know that (other than my son) you will be one of the first to cast/fish this rod. Bill Worden is sending me his personal 8' 4-wieght BIIx Winston to cast as a starting point for this project. From there, we will dial in the length, taper and cosmetics. It is totally cool to be able to get a truly custom rod. Just need to work more overtime to build-up my bag of shells.

[Salmo22]

Little known fact, all rods will handle 3 line weights. The reason rod manufactures designate only one line weight to each of their rods is to sell more rods. Burkheimer (Kerry) designs all of his rods to perform with 3 line weights. His 456 will load with a DT 4 with minimal effort and protects even the finest tippits. Put a DT or WF 5 the rod starts to load into the mid section, perfect for normal nymphing and mid size dries. With a 5 weight line you can beat the wind and even cast larger yarn indicators. Put on a WF6 and you can turn over the big bugs like a adult salmon fly. I love all four of my Gs but if you are looking for something real special go with the Burky.

Marty - I concur. Burkheimer is very "up front" with the versatility of all his rods. He is more interested that you are completely satisfied with one rod. In fact, he insists you can't lawn cast his rods and get the whole picture. They are designed to be fished and you need to be on the water to see these rods really perform.

He is not the quickest rod builder in the world; however, if you can exercise some patience, you will end up with the rod of your dreams - trust me:-)

[Marty]

Agreed but well worth any wait. I waited two years for my first two hander and would have waited for ever. I first met Kerry on the Deschutes when he was guiding for Randall back before he had his rod shop going. Kerry is not you average rod builder and his roots go way back. I would call Kerry a master craftsman, not just a rod builder. There is not a rod built that compares as far as action and cosmetics. From the wood spacers to the agate stripping guides there is not a detail missed. He farms his tread work out to locals and it is flawless. His finish is comparable to old school varnish. I love low build. His rods are a art form, not just one off a production line. There are few left like Kerry in the fly fishing industry and just to own a piece of his work is like owner a piece of fly fishing history. I have rods from almost every company out there and most are fine rods but when I have a Burky in my hand it gives me a feeling that is hard to explain so I am not going to try. It’s a part of fly fishing that few understand or even care about but for those that do it is easily understood.