Hook Debate

[raposaNegra]

quoting Curtis from another thread (and moving this idea to where it belongs):

I actually would like it to turn into a hook debate. ;)

So the question is: Are ABI's really different than Tiemco's. I don't know exactly where Dennis gets them, but I'm curious as to the difference. I have it on pretty good info that all the "big-boys" are made in the same place, with the same materials and even use the same tooling. So Daiichi, Dai-Riki, Tiemco, Targus etc are all fairly similar. I understand some of the finishing is different, hence the slight color variations.

Anyone really know for sure? I've tied on the non-Tiemco's (Targus, Daiichi etc) and have found no difference whatesoever (except the price).

[Curtis Fry]

Yeah, what he said...

[Sumner Newman]

I will use ABIs in only size 10, 2X heavy, and even in that large of a size, I still shy away from them. Over a couple of years and multiples tries with them, I've repeatedly had large/heavy fish open up the gape on an ABI size 14, 2X heavy nymph hook. More than once, the very first fish I hooked on an ABI size 14 nymph hook would spring open the gape. I've never experienced that with TMC, DR or DI. In short, I've found the ABIs to be significantly weaker in a size 14 nymph hook (2X heavy wire) and perhaps a size 12 also, than TMC, DI or DR.

[FlySmyth]

I don't know how large/heavy (take me fishing with you) the fish has to be but I have never had a fish straighten out the hook on an ABI. I have caught up to 22-23 inchers on the #16 a lot. Before when I was buying flies at sportsmans I had a few straighten out every now and then.

I vote ABI all the way. I even tie a #30 dry midge on them and still no straightening.

FlySmyth.

[cheech]

I don't know how large/heavy (take me fishing with you) the fish has to be but I have never had a fish straighten out the hook on an ABI. I have caught up to 22-23 inchers on the #16 a lot. Before when I was buying flies at sportsmans I had a few straighten out every now and then.

I vote ABI all the way. I even tie a #30 dry midge on them and still no straightening.

FlySmyth.


Those have got to be Tiemcos. ABI doesn't get that small.

If you have issues with straightening, try Kamsan. Those suckers would hold Roseanne Barr on a hook.

[Don]

I'm not a fan of ABI hooks.

I've had the most problems with their version of a 200R hook, and don't buy them any more.

As of late I've been a real fan of the Tiemco 103bl series for dry fly's. It comes in odd number sizes (21,19,17) I love the hook gap size in correlation with the hook shank length that this series offers. The hook point is also extremly sharp, and I get great hook penetration on this series.

I'm picky about the hooks I use for #16's and smaller. For larger hook sizes I'm not that picky and have used a little of everything.

[Sumner Newman]

I don't know how large/heavy (take me fishing with you) the fish has to be but I have never had a fish straighten out the hook on an ABI. I have caught up to 22-23 inchers on the #16 a lot. Before when I was buying flies at sportsmans I had a few straighten out every now and then.

I vote ABI all the way. I even tie a #30 dry midge on them and still no straightening.

FlySmyth.

First of all, I agree with cheech about Kamasans, and about the fact that you can't get ABIs in size 30.

Secondly, I'm talking fish that are only about 19-20" straightening size 14 ABIs. Admittedly, they are fairly husky fish with pretty decent girths, but still, they aren't over 20". I don't catch the truly big fish like you do, FlySmyth. Of course, most anglers generally exaggerate the size of the their bigger fish by at least 2-3". I cannot believe the number of anglers I run into who routinely call 18" fish 20", and 20" fish 22", and so on - it's really rather comical to me. As has been stated on this board before, and there is a ton of truth to it, a 20" fish is a really, really nice fish. Most people don't realize/perceive how large a 20" fish really is.

[Red.Fly]

If you have issues with straightening, try Kamsan. Those suckers would hold Roseanne Barr on a hook.

Not that you'd want to hold Roseanne Barr...on a hook or otherwise.

[Tyson]

I like tiemcos and daiichis for workhorse flies and mustads when I'm experimenting with a new prototype. Then if I like the fly I will tie more of them on the quality hooks if not I just throw it away. I try not to spend a lot on hooks, so rather than stockpile flies I never use I strip them and reuse the hook if it is a quality one. I've only had fish straighten the hook a couple of times. Both mustads.

[Curtis Fry]

You guys should really look at the Targus hooks. They're every bit as good as the Tiemco's et al, and they come at a very nice price. I can sometimes get them as low as $8 per 100. If anyone is interested, let me know.

[Tyson]

You guys should really look at the Targus hooks. They're every bit as good as the Tiemco's et al, and they come at a very nice price. I can sometimes get them as low as $8 per 100. If anyone is interested, let me know.Where can you get them? Is there a way to sample them without buying 100 initially?

[Red.Fly]

Where can you get them? Is there a way to sample them without buying 100 initially?

I can vouch for the quality. They're pretty much all I tie any more. You can get them through Curtis at www.sweetflies.com

[Curtis Fry]

Where can you get them? Is there a way to sample them without buying 100 initially?
Thanks RF. Tyson, they normally sell in 50 packs for starters. If I can get some larger quantities I can put two 50 packs and let them for for less money. Either way, they're still way cheaper than the other brands and are still the real deal.

RF: I got your hooks in. Let me know how you want to get them. I'll have them tonight at the Cabela's deal or I can mail them. Just email me...

[MuseJr]

Thanks RF. Tyson, they normally sell in 50 packs for starters. If I can get some larger quantities I can put two 50 packs and let them for for less money. Either way, they're still way cheaper than the other brands and are still the real deal.

RF: I got your hooks in. Let me know how you want to get them. I'll have them tonight at the Cabela's deal or I can mail them. Just email me...

I would like to check them out tonight if possible.

[royalcutt]

I cannot believe the number of anglers I run into who routinely call 18" fish 20", and 20" fish 22", and so on - it's really rather comical to me. As has been stated on this board before, and there is a ton of truth to it, a 20" fish is a really, really nice fish. Most people don't realize/perceive how large a 20" fish really is.

I agree, 20" is definitely a large trout. Not unheard of, but not as common as a lot of people would claim.

[Tyson]

I agree, 20" is definitely a large trout. Not unheard of, but not as common as a lot of people would claim.
I remember sighting a big brown on the Provo in town. It was sipping bugs off the top in slow water. I happened to have my rod in the trunk of my car but I had to sprint about a half mile and back. It was still there when I got back. After trying everything I finally hooked it using a live hopper. I had never caught a brown that big. I measured it with a reed and went home to see the length. I was sure it had to be 20. It turned out to be 18 exactly. And since then I learned 18 inchers are quite common, 20 inchers are not, and to always subtract 2 inches from any speculations on length. If you're looking off a bridge subtract 4 inches.

[Aristera]

I agree, 20" is definitely a large trout. Not unheard of, but not as common as a lot of people would claim.

It also depends on where you wet your line.....The fall run of brown trout had not started on a recent trip to western NY but plenty of 25"-27" steelhead and rainbows made me work my 9' 6wt. Those browns can go over 30". If length is important then a good way to judge length is to mark your rod. The first guide on my rod is 29.5" from the heel and I've only caught one trout that ever was longer. It was 30" and 18lbs.

Back to hooks. I noticed on some packs of Partridge of Redditch that they are now being made in Singapore. The quality seems good. Does anyone have any comments on finish? Black, silver, bronze?