evaluating fly patterns

[Tyson]

Real seal or synthetic? Scented or not? Got me thinking about why we put faith in a particular fly or fly material. We as practicioners of the sport rely mostly on our own past experiences. We have loads of anecdotal evidence to support our faith, and little empirical data. Maybe thats the way it should be. LaFontaine did his famous comparisons with underwater observation but I am not about to start scuba diving in that cold water. What is your test for a good fly? And when you find a good fly do you mess with it and tweak it to find out what makes it tick or do you just leave it alone, satisfied (if it aint broke don't tamper with it)?

[cheech]

Good fly = Catches fish, and easy to tie

A few examples: Iris caddis, thread midge, zebra midge, CDC n' Elk, Bunny midge.

Some flies are must haves, but not the easiest to tie.

I usually tweak flies to make different color combos, or sometimes I don't have burnt orange #46 dubbing, and I'll sub it for a similar color. I'm constantly suprised at the number of tyers that will only stick to the exact pattern, with exact materials. For me, tying is all about being creative. There are a bunch of guys here that are always coming up with new stuff. I tie with Curtis a lot, and Jason occasionally, and it's always fun to sit down to see what they are brewing up. Clint G (Rockstar caddis) is great at this too, and Jake R, who we don't hear from much anymore.

[My Tight Line]

Some flies are must haves, but not the easiest to tie.



What is an example of a Must Have fly that is hard to tie? I know a Goddard Caddis is one.

[cheech]

By hard, I mean time consuming. The Goddard is one, Irresistable anything, Truck's tarantula, Stimulators, EZ Caddis, Humpy, Royal Wulff, Prince Nymph, etc.

[Tyson]

What is an example of a Must Have fly that is hard to tie? I know a Goddard Caddis is one.
Or at what point does it become must-have? When you catch one fish with it? When it works consistently throughout a particular season? There are so many variables that are going on when you catch a fish. Flybox space is valuable space when you're toting your pack around.

[Grizz]

What sucks even worse is tying those "hard-to-tie" flies & breaking one off after 1 fish or a few casts. I've climbed trees, submerged waders & drew blood for flies that took a little extra time & effort.

But, with that said, my most productive flies by far are the ones that take the least amount of time & material. One of my favorite fall patterns is 2 materials & takes about 2-3 minutes to tie. Fish er stupid, can't fix that!

peace

[chris]

But, with that said, my most productive flies by far are the ones that take the least amount of time & material. One of my favorite fall patterns is 2 materials & takes about 2-3 minutes to tie. Fish er stupid, can't fix that!

peace

Yeah, I submerged my arm yesterday to get one of those simple suckers back. Productive is an understatement for simplicity.

[S&P]

Granted, you want flies that catch fish (most do on occasion) but a few things I look for is bouyancy, visibility, and durability. I also like patterns that split the difference between 2 or more of the most common bugs on the water. I have a few patterns I fish with confidence when it's midge & beatis time and some that I fish during PMD and caddis days of summer. Small stream patterns have to be really boyant and easy to dry out and they need to be tough cause they are going to get chewed on alot.

It's nice to have a few patterns that you know the fish will bite as long as you can get the drift right. Takes out one of the variables and lets you focus on the other one.

[JayMorr]

Like Cheech, I think one of the greatest parts in fly tying is the creativity aspect. Everyone puts faith in their own stuff that has performed well. However I think on occasions it's not so much the fly but more the presentation. I have seen several instances where fly selection doesnt even matter.

For me personally a great fly is a durable fly, one that holds up well and is fairly quick to tie. I have incorperated many new patterns into my box, a few of which came from tyers on this forum (I wont mention names since it seems like every time we mention a pattern or tyer it becomes glorified before its even fished. Astro Midge etc etc.)

I tend to change a proven pattern up a bit with color and occasionally with a different synthetic material to see if it even makes a difference. Thats just my way of experimenting and having fun.

I also like what S&P mentions about having a pattern that can represent a number of different bugs. I have a pattern that I call the "Universal" for this purpose.

[Tyson]

Is there a finite answer you are looking for, or are you just trying to play "beat the clock" until the work day is over?
Of course there is no finite answer. I just like to see what is going on in the minds of various people. Also it is fun to see the different personalities.

Last night I tied a little. I usually start out by tying the proven flies I think I will need next time I fish. That lasts about 20 minutes then inevitably I end up tying something new that I have never tried before. Or maybe its an old theme with new materials, whatever. I hold it in my hand and think to myself "how can I find out if this is a better pattern, or will it get the same results of similar flies, or worse?"

What characteristics of a fly are essential to good fishing and which are arbitrary? And how do you know? I have no preconcieved answer to this, just a stream of conscious thread here.

[Foamy8]

Hey, Cheech did you get to fish that Midge yet? Just wondering. I hope it works for you. Those pics were dandies.

[Red.Fly]

I believe that any pattern that when you open your box, always ends up getting tied on is a must have pattern. If I'm on a small mountain stream, I can guarantee you that I will fish an EHC, a Mosquito and a Royal Wulff. If it's hopper season, add hopper to the list. I have several variations in size and/or color for everything I tie, but I know that those basic fly designs will always work. Same with a Hare's Ear and a Pheasant Tail although they are last ditch efforts for those days when you can't buy a strike on any of the above. To me, nymphing is like watching Dr. Phil. You might do it once in a while when nothing else is on TV, but you don't talk about it with your fishing buddies and you sure won't ever admit to liking it.

[wildnative]

A lot of this depend on where you are fishing. If you are fishing waters with very opportunistic fish, then pattern is not as critical. If, however, you are fishing a place that is known for its "educated" fish, you may have to be more concerned with what you use.

My brother can catch lots of fish with a size 10 Prince Nymph almost anywhere. He got tired of tying on the rib, the forked biot tail, the white biots on top and just started to tie them with a few pheasant tail feathers for the tail, a section of white duck wing on top, twisted the peacock with black thread to give it durability and still knocks fish dead. So I guess, to answer your question. . .as long as your close to the patttern it will work.

[powerbait]

To me, nymphing is like watching Dr. Phil. You might do it once in a while when nothing else is on TV, but you don't talk about it with your fishing buddies and you sure won't ever admit to liking it.

I like fishing streamers and dries as much as the next guy, but I've got no problem fessing up to liking nymphs. I like to catch fish, and if the situation calls for a nymph ... rock on, baby. (Jester, I seem to recall a day when the ole' "back up" came in pretty handy for you, eh?) And as for effective patterns, it's hard to beat a good old hare's ear (and variations) for effectiveness and durability. Same goes for a black wooly bugger. Dries are tougher, because they just aren't all that durable, but stimis (particularly in smaller sizes) produce consistently for me and hold up quite well.

P.S. I always tinker with patterns, regardless of their effectiveness, but I think it has more with boredom at the tying bench than thinking I can improve on the original.

[Tyson]

Speaking from the tying bench nymph design and dryfly design force you to consider different properties. With dries there is the buoyancy issue, the footprint it creates in the water, how it bends the meniscus. There is a lot of distortion and absraction. Nymphs are more what you see is what you get with the shape and shade.

[raposaNegra]

about flies:

1. Catch fish
2. Last (doesn't fall apart after 2 nor 20 fish).
3. Simpler to tie the better.

For this reason I love the zebra midge. You can tie 2 dozen an hour. A little glue right below the bead and it will last forever. It catches tons of fish no matter what season.

As I prefer to fish dries, a lot of my favorite patterns don't quite meet criteria number 3. Quill bodied BWO hackle stackers, and Turk's Tarantulas still take me a little while to tie, but with a gallows tool most parachute patterns can be cranked out quickly.

I experiment like crazy and tie with the oddest assortment of materials, but have learned that high quality hackle sure makes tying parachute and other (dry fly) patterns a lot simpler. I like to tie nymph patterns with different materials and especially like micro tubing (like larva lace) for nymph bodies as it gives a life like translucency.

When I was down in Utah I tied primarily nymphs and emergers as the LP seems to have fewer dry opportunities than my now local waters (but the MP always had good dry opportunities) which are often referred to the "Best Dry Fly" rivers in the country, be it on the South Fork or the Ranch.

I have also learned that there are patterns that catch fish, patterns that catch fisherman, and few that do both.

For real evidence on what catches fish go read LaFontaine's books. He used to sit below the fish in scuba gear and watch how they reacted to subtle variations in patterns. It is amazing how a slight variation in color can result in tremendously different results. You could employ his methodologies to determine what really works. The old test it in an aquarium technique where you can see what the fly looks like from beneath the surface is also quite revealing.

Anyone who has fished a yellow PMD while his buddies are fishing PMDs with a little pink in them on the SF knows what I am talking about as the pink will catch 10 times more fish. Variations and experimentation in patterns may produce better on 1 piece of water, or during a hatch at various times of the year than another as local conditions may produce a unique hatch e.g. the pink PMDs on the SF, or variations in BWOs that lately have had clear bodies with just a touch of olive at the tails and a black thorax and legs.