Caddis 101

[fulano]

It's approaching that frustrating yet exciting time of year again. I know we've got PMDs, Drakes, Sallys all coming up soon, but those are not a mystery to me. I see them, or the signs of them, and I have a number of tried and true patterns to use along with back up patterns if those don't work. I even know enough about those insects that I have started to tweak patterns and "invent" my own versions of flies, based on my observations. I am still a dork with those bugs, but I have some confidence in my general skills and knowledge.

It's the pupating little moth-like SOB's that just drive me nuts. These furry winged little suckers just get me all shades of pissed off when I can't figure them out. If the fish are taking them near the surface during an emergence or feeding on egg laying adults on the surface, I'm OK. It's the subsurface activity (larva, pupa, diving adult, color, size) that I struggle with. I guess the thing I really like about fly fishing is figuring out the insects and what the fish are eating, and I have not been able to get comfortable with these little guys.

I am probably making it too complicated, but everything I read makes me think I should concentrate on what is going on under the surface alot more than I do, especially during the non-emergence times. I just can't tell from looking at the adults which species I am looking at, so I am guessing as to the sizes and colors of the larva I should be fishing. One day, I'll guess right and use a green pupa pattern and do really well. Then that pattern won't produce again all summer long.

I need to take Caddis 101 (tailored to local waters). So, what information do y'all use to determine fly pattern or style (pupa, larva, diving adult) during caddis time, or is it just guesswork?

[rodrick]

I was in the same boat last week . Caddis coming off everywhere after the thunder storm. Browns rising left and right and I couldn't hook up. Took a good look at what was going on and tried to slowly eliminate variables. Went through a box that is dedicated to caddis hatches, every emerger, nymph and dry I had. Finally took a #18 gray bodied soft hackle and swung it through and nada. Again and nada. Lubed it up with Ginks so it looked like a stillborn in the film and hammered them for the next hour.

[Taxon]

fulano-

There are several reasons that caddisflies remain a mystery to many flyfishers. Relatively little has been written about them, as compared to mayflies, and there are more than twice as many species of caddisflies, as compared to mayflies in North America.

However, there is one really outstanding book that I can recommend, Caddisflies, by Gary LaFontaine. If you were to invest the time necessary to understand the information contained in that book, caddisflies would cease being nearly as much a mystery.

Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com (http://www.FlyfishingEntomology.com)

[Tyson]

fulano-

There are several reasons that caddisflies remain a mystery to many flyfishers. Relatively little has been written about them, as compared to mayflies, and there are more than twice as many species of caddisflies, as compared to mayflies in North America.

However, there is one really outstanding book that I can recommend, Caddisflies, by Gary LaFontaine. If you were to invest the time necessary to understand the information contained in that book, caddisflies would cease being nearly as much a mystery.

Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com (http://www.FlyfishingEntomology.com)
Lafontaine uses an emergent sparkle pupa in the surface film and a deep sparkle pupa near the bottom. He says when the pupa swim to the surface they usually pause and drift just beneath the surface. This may be why you see fish touching the surface but they won't take a dry fly. He says the pupa also tend to drift freely along the bottom before they begin their ascension. Some fish will stay on the bottom to gorge.

Fulano these are things I've read but I will admit I do not have a good track record fishing caddis hatches (or any hatches for that matter).

[Curtis Fry]

Hey fulano, you're welcome to hit the water with Cheech and I when we go to test out some new caddis patterns in the next few weeks. We're no UtahDave when it comes to caddis, but we can trick a few fish here and there.

Back when I didn't have money for fancy books and the internet didn't have much more than JP's fish page (anyone remember that??), I had to take my Caddis 101 class on the LP alone by figuring stuff out trial and error. To be honest, at first, I didn't know what a caddis was. I didn't know they were those stupid moths that liked to bug me.

Take advantage of us...

[campfire]

I have had some luck fishing a simple hears ear as a droper without wt or floatant behind a regular caddis or an Adams trudy. I don't know the whys and wherefores but it works.

[paraAdams]

I agree with what Taxon said about Gary LaFontaine's book on Caddis. It's certainly the foremost authority on the life cycle of the bug. Buy it. It is really cool.

One thing that makes caddis such a mystery is that there are many types of caddis pupa. As opposed to mayflies-which have only two types of pupa. Gary's book shows with pictures and drawings and clear explanations of how to fish the bug.

The second thing I would say, is to take Steve Schmidt's entomology class at Western Rivers. You will spend one night learning from Steve, and one day on the river with screens looking at the various bugs. I was in his May 4th class, and it totally changed the way I fish with a caddis fly. Incredible!

[Grizz]

The book's wide open with Caddis. I mean honestly, what other fly can you fish in so many different ways? Dabble, dap, dive, lift, twitch, skitter, skate, walk, swing, dead drift, bounce, strip, drop, & flop. An EHC 1-2 inches below the surface (& often times deepers) can be "as good as it gets". I think the most important thing in fishing caddis, after size/color, is bug behavior. Observe how the bugs are acting on the water & adjust your presentation accordingly. I simply love fishing caddis downstream, skating & diving, followed by a short dead drift. Emergence is the most mysterious, but like many have mentioned before me, a SP or DSP is very, very hard to beat. Don't overlook the peeking style caddis either.

peace

[UtahFlyGuy]

I have to agree with Grizz with the different styles of fishing the caddis. I was years ago float tubing Strawberry and was fishing a slightly submerged EC and I was getting into some serious rainbows just under the surface.

[My Tight Line]

Does it Matter what color the body of the Caddis is. I have caught big fish 6am-7am in the morning on the Lower Provo many times.....I know that the Caddis services a lot longer. Try fishing a Elk Hair Caddis with a neon green body on the banks across from you in the mornings. Monster Browns looking for the easy catch will come up and sip them. They mainly work for me early morning and late evening...all on an Elk Hair Caddis with the neon green body. UTAH FLY GUY....I would of never thought of using a Caddis in Strawberry....that blows me away but then again I have only been Flyin 3 yrs....much to learn. Thanks for sharing that. What time of year did you use it in?

[Lonnie]

I would of never thought of using a Caddis in Strawberry....that blows me away but then again I have only been Flyin 3 yrs....much to learn. Thanks for sharing that. What time of year did you use it in?

Last summer (about this time I think) UDII and I got into a hatch of Hydroptilidae or microcaddis on Strawberry. They were all over our toons. I don't think I had anything with me that was that small or looked like it.

http://www.csuchico.edu/~sacperch/FRI/hydroptilidae/hydroptilidae.html

L

[UtahFlyGuy]

UTAH FLY GUY....I would of never thought of using a Caddis in Strawberry....that blows me away but then again I have only been Flyin 3 yrs....much to learn. Thanks for sharing that. What time of year did you use it in?

It happened in the summer, I believe it was the end of July. It was a size 12 Elk Hair Caddis(Dont ask me why I used it with no surface activity) with light deer hair with light grey dubbing. The odd thing about the whole day was these fish were taking them just below the surface in the middle of the day when nothing was hatching. I think that I had encountered a school of rainbows which were cruising by when the frenzy started. It was one after another for 7 fish straight. The wind than began to pick-up and I couldnt find them after that. Whats still a mystery to me is that all these fish were in the 3-5lb range. I often had the question....Do large fish tend to congregate together and leave the smaller ones to swim with each other of the same size?

[UtahFlyGuy]

What type of caddis pattern are you using when your out in the evening and doing damage?

[Lonnie]

What type of caddis pattern are you using when your out in the evening and doing damage?

http://www.scifi.sk/Matrix/archiv/audio/whatitis.wav

[UtahFlyGuy]

Lonnie, I had a feel'n I was going to see another link LOL!

[Taxon]

... One thing that makes caddis such a mystery is that there are many types of caddis pupa. As opposed to mayflies-which have only two types of pupa. ...
paraAdams-

Not sure what you meant by that, but mayflies don't have a pupal life stage. As far as imitating the pupal life stage of a caddisfly rising to the surface, it really isn't very difficult, as they are all pretty much the same shape, so one only needs an impressionistic imitation of the right approximate size and color.

Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com (http://www.FlyfishingEntomology.com)

[fulano]

Hey fulano, you're welcome to hit the water with Cheech and I when we go to test out some new caddis patterns in the next few weeks. We're no UtahDave when it comes to caddis, but we can trick a few fish here and there.

Back when I didn't have money for fancy books and the internet didn't have much more than JP's fish page (anyone remember that??), I had to take my Caddis 101 class on the LP alone by figuring stuff out trial and error. To be honest, at first, I didn't know what a caddis was. I didn't know they were those stupid moths that liked to bug me.

Take advantage of us...

Curtis, I will definately hit the water with you can Cheech for somw caddis action. Cheech has my cell number, so give me a buzz when you guys head out.

And as you said, nobody is "the Caddis Pimp" but Utah Dave.

[Utah DaveII]

When fishing subsurface the best caddis patterns are simple soft hackles a partirdge and orange or a partridge in green. the key to fishing soft hackles is two flies. The first fly needs to be a beadhead caddis pupa of some kind to push water and the second should be one of the soft hackles.

On top it's a matter of timing.

To really get good caddis patterns I suggest searching BLue Ribbon Flies Website and the BookMailer. You MUST get hydropsyche tan zelon dubbing and brachycentrus olive from blueribbon flies.

The key to caddis patterns is having the right pattern at the right time. I ALWAYS fish two flies during hathces.. The front fly is some kind of hairwing fly like and elk hair caddis, stimulator or cutters caddis.. The second is usually a Lafontaine emerger, Mt. T, x caddis, improved x caddis and iris caddis.

I also have some tape wings and some other flies for specfic occassions. I'm also experimenting with a few flies this summer.

#! mistake made by most fisherman at caddis time is not fishing late enough. Also as it get's darker the fly needs to throw off a better siloutte. Flies like Goddard and the hairwings really start to kick in.

[Ed Gabriel]

I got into some good fish on two nights last summer at dark, once on middle Provo, once on Lower provo. Size 14, 4 partridge wings, gray body, light brown hackle (not palmered, just tied at front of hook). The MP fish were all 16-18" - at a pool that gets hammered during the day!

[FishOn!]

The key to caddis patterns is having the right pattern at the right time. I ALWAYS fish two flies during hathces.. The front fly is some kind of hairwing fly like and elk hair caddis, stimulator or cutters caddis.. The second is usually a Lafontaine emerger, Mt. T, x caddis, improved x caddis and iris caddis.

I have had the best success this way too...I usually do a cast upstream and try to keep it drag free for a bit to see if a fish is gonna pop the dry off the top then later in my drift I let it swing so the trailing fly "emerges" towards the surface...super aggressive takes!


#! mistake made by most fisherman at caddis time is not fishing late enough. Also as it get's darker the fly needs to throw off a better siloutte. Flies like Goddard and the hairwings really start to kick in.

In my experience it seems the hatch really turns off quick once it gets quite dark. I stop getting strikes so I head out at that point. I do usually fish until there is no sunlight. Is there a little gap after the main hatch until some later activity kicks up again??

[Utah DaveII]

Unless there is cloud cover the fishing is always best right up till pitch black. IF I was fishing tonight, I would not get back to my truck(errr focus) until about 10:20. There usually is about 15 minutes right after sundown where the fishing slows, but after that hold on. Like I said though I fished hundreds of caddis hatches into the dark and the only itme that I do not do well after sunset is if there is cloud cover and that I believe is related to the fact that it darkens the sky so the fish do not see the silloutte.

[Lonnie]

Next to fishing the BWO hatch, this is my favorite fishing of the year. I think it's just the novelty of it. Casting to the sound of rising fish on a river with nobody else (except Dave) around. Dave is the master of this ("There's one right over there....") One thing I like to do is switch to a down stream presentation and let them swing. The movement attracts the fish and it's easier to set the hook.

Also, alot of times, I think that there are 2 things going on that get the fish worked up. First, the pupa are emerging and that's what many of us focus on. But I also think that this is the time that the females are flying back to the stream to deposit their eggs. They either float on the surface or dive under depending on the species. This is another reason I think the 2 fly setup with an emerger type and an adult type is the best setup for this type of fishing.

L

[FishOn!]

Unless there is cloud cover the fishing is always best right up till pitch black. IF I was fishing tonight, I would not get back to my truck(errr focus) until about 10:20. There usually is about 15 minutes right after sundown where the fishing slows, but after that hold on. Like I said though I fished hundreds of caddis hatches into the dark and the only itme that I do not do well after sunset is if there is cloud cover and that I believe is related to the fact that it darkens the sky so the fish do not see the silloutte.

Yeah, I am staying late enough...I was refering to when the sun is completely down. Once I don't hear/see anymore rises is when I leave but I have my headlamp on at that point so its definately dark. Is it in the morning when all those hatched caddis come back and lay eggs?

[UtahFlyGuy]

When fishing subsurface the best caddis patterns are simple soft hackles a partirdge and orange or a partridge in green. the key to fishing soft hackles is two flies. The first fly needs to be a beadhead caddis pupa of some kind to push water and the second should be one of the soft hackles.




The key to caddis patterns is having the right pattern at the right time. I ALWAYS fish two flies during hathces.. The front fly is some kind of hairwing fly like and elk hair caddis, stimulator or cutters caddis.. The second is usually a Lafontaine emerger, Mt. T, x caddis, improved x caddis and iris caddis.


#! mistake made by most fisherman at caddis time is not fishing late enough. Also as it get's darker the fly needs to throw off a better siloutte. Flies like Goddard and the hairwings really start to kick in.

Dave thanks for sharing the info. I'll give'r a go later on.

[Utah DaveII]

I guess I should have wrote this. Most Anglers leave the river just about the time it gets a little hard to see their fly. If you can still wee the water your leaving too early. If your leaving when it is dark, the fishing will stay pretty consistent. Also full moon do not hurt.

[nightfish]

If you can still wee the water your leaving too early.

Jeeze Dave...no need to turn this into a pissing contest ;)

[campfire]

OK, please back up a little for us non entomoloist types and educate me. Are all of the caddis adults that hoover around the water at dusk a "hatch" or are they a spinner fall comming back to the water to lay eggs? And what is their activity after dark?

[Taxon]

campfire-

Well, it wouldn't be a "spinner" fall, because only sexually mature mayfly adults are called spinners, but I know what you meant.

Without actually seeing the activity you are referring to, it's a bit risky to attempt answering your question, but if you are referring to a bunch of them hovering around in reasonably close proximity to one another, it's most likely a mating swarm.

However, the time of day (before or after dark) wouldn't necessarily preclude either emergence or egg-laying. In other words, it's entirely possible to be all three, although not likely to be all three for a single species simultaneously, but even that is not entirely impossible, simply improbable.

Hope this helps.

Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com (http://www.FlyfishingEntomology.com)

[Jason]

campfire-

Well, it wouldn't be a "spinner" fall, because only sexually mature mayfly adults are called spinners, but I know what you meant.

Without actually seeing the activity you are referring to, it's a bit risky to attempt answering your question, but if you are referring to a bunch of them hovering around in reasonably close proximity to one another, it's most likely a mating swarm.

However, the time of day (before or after dark) wouldn't necessarily preclude either emergence or egg-laying. In other words, it's entirely possible to be all three, although not likely to be all three for a single species simultaneously, but even that is not entirely impossible, simply improbable.

Hope this helps.

Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com (http://www.FlyfishingEntomology.com)
Uh, what he said.

Taxon actually makes a great point, in his own subtle way, that caddis are a damn hard bug to figure out 90% of the time. Just go with your gut instinct and fish the best way you know how. Try a few different techniques, flies, colors, etc. One day it'll be on fire, the next day will be damn frustrating. But that's what makes caddis fishing so fun. :-)

[campfire]

Thanks guys for the non information information but I get the drift. On a couple of occassions near dusk I have seen a lot of caddis "adults" hoovering close to the water but did not seem to be emmerging from the water and were not exactly landing on the water either (no fish rising). I just assumed they were returning to the water to lay eggs and for some reason or another I have allways had to leave. I just get the impression that I was leaving too early and they would eventually start landing on the water and trigger rising fish.

[Garth]

Most frustrating fishing I ever had was on the Missouri River just above Craig Montana.

Came in in early evening, had a few beers and dinner. About 7 to 9 this hatch went off that was amazing. Whole Missouri alive with rising fish. Figured "Don't go in the river today with a couple a beers in your gut, but wait till tomarrow".

Next day I am ready. Sure enough hatch goes off. I am out their with a ton of different caddis patterns. Fished till the hatch stopped with over 400 fish rising within 360 degrees of me and my casting ability. Not one fish. Tried every dry caddis pattern I had.

Afterwards some folk told me about the dry with an emerger trailing. That the fish were probably keying on the emergers. Have not tried it yet, but I am ready to if I get in that situation again.