Bass Fly Controversy

[Curtis Fry]

So I'm talking to a friend of mine about what the difference is between a plastic (unscented, unweighted) bass bait like a Senko and bass flies in general. Assuming, it's a bass fly not made entirely of deer hair or rabbit strips, both are made with synthetic materials. Then the comparison is drawn to something like a Brassie or Copper John where the fly consists of mostly all synthetic materials. A plastic bass bait is too. He asks why I don't throw Senko's with a fly rod if the bait is unscented. Good question I said. Maybe I've been too narrow-minded about what a "fly" is. Synthetic material surely isn't a limiting factor.

Anyway, I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has done this and whether this is sacreledge.

Also, I'd be interested to see what people's take on what a "fly" is. Obviously, to each his own, but it might be for some good discussion.

(keep it civil)...

[Mr. Loopy]

To me a fly must be TIED. If it is molded or snapped together or whatever... it's not a fly.

[HarleyBob]

as I understand the issue... it is not a real fly unless it is a dry fly, and then not really real unless it is a Royal Wulff.

Fish what you like... its your time and your hobby...

[Tyson]

I like those wiggle bugs that are a bugger with a foam lip pulled over the back and it swims like a crank bait. They are light enough to be flycasted and have great action.

I will also take a second to say that fly fisherman that are afraid to think out of the box and try out new materials and new methods are no fun. Be creative and experiment, let the trout judge whether your presentation is a good one or not.

I respect the traditions of fly fishing but when I step onto the water I serve up what the trout require of me as efficiently as I can. I don't stick by the book. The trout and its environment should dictate how, what I present. At least to me, that is the challenge and the fun of fishing, discovering the behavior of trout. If that bores you and you want to try to get them to jump through your hoop, go for it.

I will also say that anyone who puts a split shot on their line is in violating the pure tradition of fly fishing which is defined by how one casts the fly. Roll casts, tension casts of weighted rigs are already out of bounds, so how can anyone accuse anyone else of any heresy? I am grateful that trout and bass are not offended nor impressed by how "traditional" someone is fishing.

Sorry to rant, I haven't been fishing in a while, the tension has been building up.

[FlyGuy]

For me, fly fishing is defined by the line delivering the fly/lure. Whether or not the fly/lure consists of deer hair, foam, hackle, or rubber isn't the point. To each his own; except when it's considered "bait" by the regulations.

[Cary]

Loopy is right, a fly absolulutey MUST be tied. AND, it must be cast by the line.

Anything else is circle jerking.

[Mr. Loopy]

The question wasn't whether or not you think it's "cool" to fish with plastics or bait. It was what do you consider to be fly fishing. I don't personally care how people choose to fish as long as they stay within the regs....

I was just defining what I believe to be a "fly."

[banjoflyfish]

I am the western distributor of the Banjo minnow. Put one of those babies on the end of a 6 weight with 3x leader/tippet, and look out! That is some mighty fine flyfishing!

https://www.asseenontvnetwork.com/vcc/tristar/banjominnow/162618/

[S&P]

I would just have trouble seeing the point of fishing senkos and other plastics with a fly rod. Even fishing senkos weightless would be on the heavy side to handle with a fly cast. Like LuckyB points out, flyfishing is not always the best fit for the type of fish and water you are targeting. I don't see any practical reason to throw a senko with a flyrod other than to see if it can be done (even if it can, a baitcaster rod or spinning outfit will do it much better).
I think that the niche that a fly rod fills the absolute best is delivering baits (artificials) to a fish that are too light to effectively cast with other methods. The fly line propells the near weightless fly to where you want it and allows you to have that connection from the fly to your fingers. Works great for alot of fishing situations, but it is not the answer all to every type of fishing. Bottom line, I could probably heave a 5" senko out there with a fly rod, but it would be alot less frustrating and more practical with my 7' super fast spinning rod.

Mark, I watched 'A River Runs Through It' last night with my girlfriend. You got a problem with that? And what the hell is a damn otter doing up in a tree instead of down in the creek?

Imagine Brad Pitt trying to throw one of those pretty casts with a waky rigged senko.....

[Grizz]

:)
I actually really like the movie, and it is in my dvd library. but it is one of the main culprits for modern fly fishermen's dislike towards non-flyfishermen (especially bait fisherman. The Hills Brother coffee can reference is a powerful example). It's impact on the sport is undeniable. That was my reason for mentioning it...

I think with more independant FF films hitting the market recently, ie, Trout Bum Diaries / Season of the mayfly, the "Movie" will lose it's grasp as the most influential media to alter the pass time. There's a new sherriff in town.

As far as bass bugs go, if'n it's tied with hair, fur & feathers, it's a fly. If'n you incorporate a blade, a propeller or a full rubber/ plastic body, it is keystone swillin', spark-plug chuckin', greasy fingered bait slingin' best routed for spinning gear via Abu Garcia or Zebco outfits.

let's at least protect some degree of standard in the pass time.

oh ya, copper johns are questionable fer sure.

peace

[Rod Hog]

I was watching a DVD by Mr. Soft Hackle, Sylvester Nemes. I am still laughing when I heard him say that using beadheads is not flyfishing.

Go figure! I can't stand the thought of not being able to use beadheads and going back to the "old" days.

[Cary]

:) It's impact on the sport is undeniable. That was my reason for mentioning it...

What has been the impact? there werent dry fly elitists before RRTI? I dont think the "movie" has had tall the impact that many say. For the most part, those that ditched the zebco and picked up a Hardy after seeing the movie are the ones that give credit to the impact, or whatever.

The otter line is classic...

[Marty]

There is no winning this one. I see it this way. If you were raised a fly fisher there is no question what a fly is. If you are a convert to the sport, it depends on how converted you are. There was a reference to a Royal Wolff as the purest form of tying. Did you know that Wolff used to mold flies out of plastic. “Shocking” For me the rule is, fly tying is wrapping two or more materials to a hook completing it with a whip. I am into tying all natural, but do use some synthetics now and then. Most of the time the only synthetic product I use is the thread. I do have some silk but it a pain to use. I see tying as more of an art form, not just a means to catch fish. I love to tie and have a great respect for the history of the sport. I am getting ready for a tarpon trip. It is fully guided and I was told not to bring any equipment. That did not stop me from tying a box of Tarpon flies complete with bite tippet, it is all part of the experience.

[cheech]

I am the western distributor of the Banjo minnow. Put one of those babies on the end of a 6 weight with 3x leader/tippet, and look out! That is some mighty fine flyfishing!

https://www.asseenontvnetwork.com/vcc/tristar/banjominnow/162618/


I LOVE BANJO MINNOWS!!

Can you get me some for cheap?

I used to fish these at Stansbury years ago, and they are DEADLY!

Shoot me an email!

[Curtis Fry]

My problem is when I tie the banjo minnow to the hook, the thread slices right through the suckers....

Anyhoo...surprising as it may be, you dudes have some good points all around.

If you were raised a fly fisher there is no question what a fly is. If you are a convert to the sport, it depends on how converted you are.
Interesting way of looking at it. One good example of this is a guy I used to work with was pretty much raised on fly fishing. To him, there was no question what a fly is/was -- He just tied what he wanted and didn't have any pre-conceived ideas of what a fly was or not. It was cool to tie wiggle tails on flies and incorporate all sorts of different doodads like propellers, beads, lips etc.

It's all good....

[THeBLender]

For me the rule is, fly tying is wrapping two or more materials to a hook completing it with a whip.

What about a one color thread midge? Is Andy Kim not a real fly tier?

[Marty]

I have never met this Andy, does he fly fish? I have heard he has taken credit for flies that were created years (decades) before he came on the scene. I remember tying thread midge patterns 30 years ago out of a book that was 10+ years old. I have a real hard time with someone putting their name on a fly. It seems all you have to do to get your name on a fly is change the color or tie it with some new synthetic. I am all about trying new things, add this or that to a productive pattern to make it better, but with the number of fly tiers out there and the history of the art, coming up with something new and taking full credit is virtually impossible ( unless you are one of the names). I was one of the first guides on the Green River to tie a cicada pattern. It was a deer hair bullet head with a poly rope body. I took the idea from a stone fly pattern. I never put my name on it because all I did was change the color to black. I guess I should have, I would be so rich from the royalties I could have quit my job and just fished all the time. Time to get off my soap box, and did I mention, if I remember right, I taught Any how to nymph. jk

PS Trevor and I are ready to start the Heber fly tying club, email if interested.
martyohoward@netzero.net

[skighhigh]

:) Nah... I'll give ya a pass on this one Scott. :)

I actually really like the movie, and it is in my dvd library. but it is one of the main culprits for modern fly fishermen's dislike towards non-flyfishermen (especially bait fisherman. The Hills Brother coffee can reference is a powerful example). It's impact on the sport is undeniable. That was my reason for mentioning it...


I'm gonna start carrying my flies in empty powerbait bottles.........................LMAO