Bug samples

[S&P]

So who actually takes stream samples from the drift? I often look around under rocks and study the surface of the water to see what is floating around, and if there are winged insects flying around I'll catch one and examine it, but I dont carry anything that I can actually sein the water with. Do many of you all do that? What do you use, and what are the advantages?

[jmwhosh]

I actually took a couple of those white hairnets that you have to use and clean room in manufacturing facilities and I use those as a sein when I need help figuring out whats going on in the drift. It works great but unfortunately I have to hold the hair net in my hand and then stick my hand in the water for a good 20-30 seconds to get a sample and then for the next 5 minutes I have to fish one handed because the one that was in the water is useless until I can get it warmed up a bit.

[TS30]

I usually fish in waters that I am familiar with, and I am confident that I know what is going on, so I rarely take samples. But heck, I'd probably catch more fish if I started doing that. Guess I just can't take the 2 minutes, got the get the feather wet!

[spotter]

I'm curious about this as well. I've been toying with the idea of purchasing some vials such as these:

http://www.bioquip.com/html/View_Catalog.asp?page=17

Can anyone comment on the prices of these vials? Where do the entomologists on the site purchase their supplies? What solution do you use to preserve aquatic insects? I've heard ethanol is this correct? Are there color preserving agents that can be added?

Hope this isn't a hijack. Just some ???'s that have been rattling around for awhile.

p.s. Entomology and fly tying will be more of my focus until the boy is old enough to cast. Until that time we will probably cast a fly and a bubble or *gasp* bait. ;)

p.p.s. I saw a small oak display at a southern Utah fly shop that had about 20 of these vials with stoneflies and other large bugs from fabled trout waters. It was a nice piece of "decor."

[Don]

All the time, every time........

Ok maybe not as much as I used to but if you are new to fly fishing this is a MUST! For the rookie a sein will help you catch more fish than any other piece of equipment you own.

Give me two rookies with a little common sense. Outfit one with the best equipment money can buy, give the other guy the junky stuff and a SEIN and the one with the SEIN (if he uses it) will catch more fish every time.

Do you want to be a better tier? Use a Sein. after all your tying flies to imitate bugs.

I was fishing the weber a couple of years ago, and took a sample Baetis nymphs were the dominant bug in a cream/tan color. Fish on. Later that day we went to a different section on the same area, and I was struggling. Out came the sein and to my surprise, Sow Bugs were the dominant insects in that stretch followed by the baetis. The intersting thing was the Baetis nymphs in this area were Green where as the baetis nymphs in the other area were were a tan color. Same river, same time, different results.

A Sein this time of year will tell you if you should be fishing, green, tan, yellow or black or even red midges, and what size.

All it does is improve your odds.

I don't collect insects in viles, (i did at one time) I'm too worried my kids will get into them and dump them out.

Use a dowl and some screen from a window to make one. Buy and aquarium net, or buy one of the commercial one, either way it's money well spent. Rolling over a rock is better than nothing but you would be surprized at what your really miss by not using a sein.

[S&P]

I went to the trouble once to make a sein from two dowels and some screening. After putting the thing together, I realized that I would never end up carrying it around the stream with me. Haven't used it yet.

[pstruh]

I went to the hardware store and bought a paint strainer. They are made to go over buckets for putting the paint back in I guess. I just carry it with my gear. It's small, light weight, white so the bugs are easy to see and it dries quickly with a few shakes. I just slip it over my net and go to town. It really comes in handy and doesn't seem to slow me down a bit. Size may vary depending on the size of your net. Sometimes it will surprise you what you may find if you take a minute to seine the water. Last week I found some nice golden stones that I had no idea existed in the river. Tied on a size 10 GS nymph and nymphed some fish out of a hole that I had already fished with a streamer. Give it a try it has worked well for me.

[Tightlinez]

Ok, maybe a dumb question, but for those of us who have never done it, how do you properly seine a river?

[UtahFlyGuy]

Ok, maybe a dumb question, but for those of us who have never done it, how do you properly seine a river?
From my experience you hold your seine just downstream from a rock you intend and rub. Rub the bottom of the rock and let the debri flow into the seine. take out all of the junk and find the scuds, sows, caddis etc. etc.

[nooksack34]

i usually examine the underside of rocks, but if i want to sein the bottom i just use my net. the net i have makes this fairly easy.

[Jason B]

now are you wanting to seine what is drifting down the river at that time or rub a rock and see what is actually in the river? To get a good sample of whats in the river seine below a rock that you want to get a sample from. What i do when i want to see whats drifting is i will go to a nice slow backeddie and just look in the water. Most of the time you will see the shuck or the emerging bug within a minute or two.

[Fred]

I use the seine mit. Works pretty well. I tend to use it if I am fishing new water or just feel like looking for some invertebrates. It's interesting what you can find and comes in handy when you forget to bring a snack.

Fun stuff.

[S&P]

Good point Jason B. I was under the impression that seining the drift would let you know what kinds of bugs are 'on the move' so to speak, and that those are the bugs the fish would most likely key on. Rubbing a rock I don't think is any different from picking up that same rock and taking a look at what's underneath it. I can do that fine without the need for a sein. I don't know a lot about aquatic entomology but I thought that before an emergence the nymphs come out of their hiding places and enter the drift in preperation for their metamorphisis. So the drift would be comprised of those nymphs that are the most available to the trout at that given time, and also random other organisms that have been flushed into the drift like scuds and sows, stonefly and caddis larva, etc.

I was more interested in how you sein the drift, without disturbing the bottom. Does anyone do this or is disturbing the bottom the common way to get samples?

[chris]

Fish don't think "hey dude get in the current". They are in a vulnerable state with no control of their body trying to morph to the stage of sexual maturity. Remember when you did that?
Pick up a rock, check out the overhanging brush, and like JB said look at the water. So much to be seen in the water.
Prep your box for anything and it won't be such a big issue. Guarantee the right fly by going with friends.

[chris]

Fish don't think "hey dude get in the current". They are in a vulnerable state with no control of their body trying to morph to the stage of sexual maturity. Remember when you did that?
Pick up a rock, check out the overhanging brush, and like JB said look at the water. So much to be seen in the water.
Prep your box for anything and it won't be such a big issue. Guarantee the right fly by going with friends.
I meant to say bugs don't ..... have another beer

[Curtis Fry]

.. GENTLY pump his stomache, see what he's been eating and go from there

So what is this stomach pumping thing? Sounds interesting....

[flip]

There used to be a lab supply store at about 15th south on redwood road. they were called VWR and they merged with Fisher so now it may say fisher out side. ( I think I have that right ) They have those little vials with black plastic screw on lids. But they also have them at SW for more money (I think ) If you want some, a phone call could get you prices..I have a few and I like to put hooks and beads in them. I keep thinking about the looking at the bugs thing too and havent yet either.. But I thought a hairnet and wire hanger may work...Oh about the vials I have heard the DEA looks for people who buy some items because they are used in making drugs. But I don't think a dozen bottles would put you on a list ;-) Mayby a look in the yellow pages for lab supplys would be a good start.

[Don]

This one folds up to the size of pen. It's not good for checking out what's on the bottom,(it's a little fragile) but for anyone who has tried to catch a fluttering caddis or try to catch a dun in their hand that is floating on the surface this is perfect.

http://folstaf.com/catchhatch.htm


There is als a net-bag that hooks around your fishing net that tucks in a little bag when not in use that is also great, It's small and sturdy enough when it's around your fishign net to check out what's floating on the bottom.

I'll have to find a link...

[fulano]

So what is this stomach pumping thing? Sounds interesting....

Keep mending that line, you might get a take at the end of the drift.

[spotter]

There used to be a lab supply store at about 15th south on redwood road. they were called VWR and they merged with Fisher so now it may say fisher out side. ( I think I have that right ) They have those little vials with black plastic screw on lids. But they also have them at SW for more money (I think ) If you want some, a phone call could get you prices..I have a few and I like to put hooks and beads in them. I keep thinking about the looking at the bugs thing too and havent yet either.. But I thought a hairnet and wire hanger may work...Oh about the vials I have heard the DEA looks for people who buy some items because they are used in making drugs. But I don't think a dozen bottles would put you on a list ;-) Mayby a look in the yellow pages for lab supplys would be a good start.

Thanks Flip. Next time I'm in the neighborhood I'll swing by. I think Fisher Scientific puts out a catalog and probably has a website too. I like to compare prices, service and quality. Last spring I bought a bug collecting kit from Bioquip. They are a good company (good service and packaging) but I thought the kit was overpriced for what was included.

[Tightlinez]

I use the seine mit. Works pretty well. I tend to use it if I am fishing new water or just feel like looking for some invertebrates. It's interesting what you can find and comes in handy when you forget to bring a snack.

Fun stuff.


What is a seine mitt? Where can you get one?

[Fred]

What is a seine mitt? Where can you get one?

It's kind of like a baseball mit, but it's a net. You slip your hand in it, stick it in the water, and begin seining. I'm not an expert seiner by any means, but it seems to do the job. It folds up pretty small, which is nice. Don't remember where I got it. Sportsman's maybe.

[Jason]

Just noticed last week that Western Rivers has a nice "beginners" entomology kit for those interested. They've also got a good supply of Bug Balmer for your vials as well.

[Juke]

Thanks Flip. Next time I'm in the neighborhood I'll swing by. I think Fisher Scientific puts out a catalog and probably has a website too. I like to compare prices, service and quality. Last spring I bought a bug collecting kit from Bioquip. They are a good company (good service and packaging) but I thought the kit was overpriced for what was included.
The Chem Shop on Redwood has closed and moved to Centerville. It is now located in the same building as Hi Valley Chemical(west of I-15). Also check out the local university, the Chem dept or bookstore will often have glassware that is applicable.

[spotter]

The Chem Shop on Redwood has closed and moved to Centerville. It is now located in the same building as Hi Valley Chemical(west of I-15). Also check out the local university, the Chem dept or bookstore will often have glassware that is applicable.

Thanks. The Chem Shop came to mind but it's been ages since I was in there. I'm not in the area so I will likely order some samples online and investigate further when I'm in the neighborhood. If ' Royalwulff' is out there maybe he could suggest a supplier in Indianapolis. As I recall he used to frequent these parts.